86th Chemical Warfare Company, RE

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by David A Mottershead, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. David A Mottershead

    David A Mottershead New Member

    Greeting,
    I've just started writing out my grandfathers war diary and found out that he was captured on the 21st February 1943 between Kasserine and Talah.

    He was Roger Collinson - 2127902, a Sapper in the 86th Chemical Warfare Company.

    I cant find much information about this company so if you have anything i would be appreciated.

    I have a list of members of his company that he was a POW with which i list below ( the second number is the POW Number):

    Roger Collinson Surname 2127902 154111 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    William S Ford Bill 2130902 226736 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Gerald W Emptage Jerry 1877060 155036 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Clark Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Armitage Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Tubby Bastard Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    H Captain Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Ernie Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Dave Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Shrzaker Bill
    George Edward Bellis 2127898 153332 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    ER Baldwin Ike 6005052 228578 Lance Sergeant Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    E A Calveley Ernie 2127872 154110 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    J Daly Jerry 1986523 222124 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Jones Private
    Brown Tammy RSM
    H Wild 2114340 227594 Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    F E Gethen Felix 2019157 228596 Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    C P Singer 2114321 153923 Sergeant Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Montague Frederick Entwistle Sgt 5381648 Sergeant Grenadier Guards 6th Battalion
    Harold Beamish 2129767 228154 Lance Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    K F Manning Ken 2118019 2118019? Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    R Taylor Roy 2129794 Lance Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Charlie Beazeley 2128441 221508 Driver Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Bill Campbell
    Payne
    J Houghton 2119609 221018 Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Thompson
    Jones
    Gilbert Alder 1946643 154302 Driver Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    B Rooney 2016904 226168 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    Jack Frost
    Norman F Druce 7892836 154307 Trooper Royal Armoured Corps
    Tom Sedgewick Sergeant
    E W Bickle 2114819 153925 Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    George Earl 14710025 87093 Private Somerset Light Infantry
    Harold Evans
    V L Hooker Les 922012 154557 Gunner Royal Artillery
    E R Soutar 7595493 153302 Corporal Royal Army Ordnance Corps
    F A Pitt Fred 3455442 140134 Private Parachute Regiment 2nd Battalion
    Robert J Reasoner Bob 34242418 Sergeant Tial Gunner USA
    R L Booth Rob 2010505 154109 Sergeant Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    R Simpson Rab 2135273 227143 Lance Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    F Moody Fred 4469578 Private Durham Light Infantry 16th Battalion
    John Johnson
    J J Gordon
    Micky Marks
    Leslie Branscombe 1525627 153937 Gunner Royal Artillery VI Commando
    Charlie Shields
    Jim Davidson
    J G Bird T/248744 153922 Driver Royal Army Service Corps
    Les Roberts
    Honk
    J Taylor Jack
    Tommy Tudor 269080 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    J W Osborne Jack 2120516 227586 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    C R Barnard Bob 2016770 154113 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    McLean
    J King 2154114 226625 Sapper Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company
    F Williams Frank 2127893 226167 Lance Corporal Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company

    Thank you
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi and welcome to the forum. Hopefully some of the members will be a long shortly and help you out.
     
  3. Paul Entwistle

    Paul Entwistle New Member

    Hi I see that you list amongst the Pow's my uncle Montague Fredrick Entwistle 6th battalion Grenadier Guards he was not a prisoner of war, however he was killed on 17 March 1943 during the battle of the Marith Line in North Africa.
     
  4. Andy Bickle

    Andy Bickle New Member

    Sergeant E W Bickle 2114819 was my grandfather
    I am aware that he was taken prisoner in Italy and ended up in Germany Feb 45, liberated by 7th armoured brigade and flown back to England 25/04/1945
     
  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    the author of the opening post has not signed in again after his November 2017 post.
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Moved thread to RE section.

    For the record, War diaries held at TNA, Kew:

    ROYAL ENGINEERS: COMPANIES: 86 Chemical Warfare Company (CW). | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 166/3596 [Home Forces series]
    Description: ROYAL ENGINEERS: COMPANIES: 86 Chemical Warfare Company (CW).
    Date: 1941 Mar.- Oct.

    ROYAL ENGINEERS: CHEMICAL WARFARE COMPANIES: 86 Company. | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 166/7968 [Home Forces series]
    Description: ROYAL ENGINEERS: CHEMICAL WARFARE COMPANIES: 86 Company.
    Date:
    1942 Sept., Oct.


    Possible WD reference. Although CW not specified, date does follow on from above and is for North African theatre:
    86 Coy. | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 175/622 [North Africa series]
    Description: 86 Coy. [Royal Engineers]
    Date: 1942 Oct.- 1943 May
     
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  8. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    There is a thread on CW Companies in 1940, and their records at Kew, where the 86th is shown: CW Companies, R.E. post-Dunkirk

    The author David has been pursuing this since 2017. See: Royal Engineers 86th Chemical Warfare Company Which refers to his grandad writing up a diary in 1979, there was a web link - now inactive.

    There is one reference to the 86th being part of 'Nick Force' in Tunisia and they deployed with 4.2" mortars. You might find more looking at the other formations in 'Nick'. There is nowt of POWs being taken by the Germans. See: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Larkhill_s_Wartime_Locators/e_vLDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq="86th+Chemical+Warfare+Company"&pg=PT483&printsec=frontcover

    In this American thesis about the impact of the initial American defeat it shows the composition of 'Nick Force' on pgs.149-150, for a few days in February 1943 and that only two sections of the 86th were present. See: https://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/islandora/object/fsu:185168/datastream/PDF/view The Wiki entry shows the mortars, minus who operated them: Nickforce - Wikipedia

    Elsewhere I saw references to four thousand POWs being taken prisoner by the German-Italian force.

    There will be threads here on Kasserine, I have not looked at them as an earlier search did not show any other threads including the 86th.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
  9. Andy Bickle

    Andy Bickle New Member

    if memory serves me correctly, the 86th CW RE was part of the 1st Army in Africa under Gen Anderson.
    what we don't know or understand is how my grandfather was a POW in Italy? then transferred to Germany (Stalag X1B) to be liberated by the 7th Armoured Div and flown back to England 25/04/1945
     
  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    In general terms -
    POWs captured in North Africa were eventually transferred, usually by ship, to Italy. Away from the action: less drain on critical resources, less chance of returning to their own forces.
    The Italians capitulated in September 1943. A 'Standfast Order' was subsequently issued to all British POWs, instructing them to await liberation by their own troops. However camps were almost immediately taken over by German guards who then arranged for their transport, by train, to POW camps in German territory.


    Hope that addresses your confusion about movements.
     
  11. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Andy,

    Yes, the 86th were part of the British 6th Armoured Division and part of the 1st Army. In the emergency of the Axis successful attack at Kasserine Pass, 'Nick Force' was briefly created for five days. See: Nickforce - Wikipedia

    Why and how your grandfather was taken prisoner is not revealed in my quick research today.

    There was an agreement in place that Allied POWs were transferred to Italian custody, so they were taken to a large number of camps in Italy. When Italy decided to announce an armistice most of the camp's Italian guards disappeared and the Germans swiftly moved in, evacuating the POW to camps in Austria, Germany and Poland. See for a starter: Armistice of Cassibile - Wikipedia

    There are many threads here on the POW camps in Italy and probably a thread(s) on Stalag X1B.
     

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