8 die in bus crash, Knottingley 07 Feb 1943

Part of my research into the Smollan brothers.

Dennis died in a bus crash on 07 Feb 1943.
He is named on a plaque with 6 of his fellow colleagues, but one name is missing Aircraftsman second class Herbert Larman, aged 19. I thought he may belong to another sqn, but according to the CWGC database he was with 51 Sqn - but 51 Sqn dont have him on their Roll of Honour



Anyway, thanks to a very kind ex-gunner from Pontefract I have press cuttings from the event.

First press article

Pontefract & Castleford Express February 1943

EIGHT RAF MEN DIE after serious road crash at Knottingley.

One of the worst road accidents in the district for many years occurred at Knottingley late on Saturday night and caused the deaths of eight members of the Royal Air Force, and seriously injury to a number of others.

Two RAF motor-buses, which were returning to their station after a recreational outing at Pontefract for the staff, were passing through Knottingley when the rear vehicle failed to take the corner near the Town Hall. It crashed into the Vicarage wall, a great part of which was knocked down, and overturned. Most of the occupants were injured, and five were dead when extracted. Three others died in Pontefract General Infirmary.

Members of the local Civil Defence Casualty Services, which include the first-aid post and Ambulance and first– aid parties (under Dr E Murphy), with police, soldiers and members of the public were quickly on the scene and rescue work was carried out by means of hand torches and storm lanterns. The emergency door at the rear of the bus was forced open and the injured and dead were gradually removed. Other help was given also given by members of the Civil Defence Services at Pontefract, and the injured men were all treated at the Knottingley First-Aid post before being taken to the Pontefract General Infirmary where 25 were admitted. Only four of the occupants of the bus escaped injury, including the driver, but three who were only slightly injured were allowed to return to their station.

The eight who lost their lives were:- Cpl Herbert Hanson(33), of 11 Nursery Street, Birkby, Huddersfield; A.C.1 Dennis Smollan(22), of Governor Road, Jesmond, Newcastle; A.C.1 Albert J James(21), of 64 Ashvale Place, Aberdeen;
Sergeant Air-gunner George Bernard Noble(24) of Foulsyke Farm, Fylingdale, Robin Hood’s Bay; Sergeant James T Tremain(22), of 71 Warwick Road, Batley; Sergeant Leonard G Moseley(23), of Weston Road, Mickleover, Derby; A.C.2 Norman Ward(21), of 251 Tang Hall Lane, York; and A.C.2 Herbert Larman(19) of 263 Levy Street, Radcliffe, Lancs.

Still in the Infirmary, and very ill are; A.C.1 James McCann(36) of Auchinleck, Scotland; A.C.2 Archibald Pyle(33), of Station Road, Helmsley; Sergeant John Greaves(21), of Spratslade Drive, Longton, Staffs; Sergeant Kenneth W Trott(21) of Cross Hill, Shrewsberry; Sergeant Herbert Carver(20), of Drayton Road, Norwich; LAC George Shaw(28) of Brierley Street, Oldham; LAC James Irwin(35) of Cobden Street Glasgow; A.C.2 Albert J Bloggs(37) of Cross Street, Scarborough; and, A.C.1 C Scott of Manor Estate, Belfast. Others not so ill are: A.C.1 J. Gee(66) Gayford Road, Shepherds Bush, London; A.C.2 B. Gosling(33), Second Avenue, Walfinstale; LAC J. Miller, 11 Herman Close, Grantham; A.C.1 R.Daniels, 1 Cleveland Avenue, Fullwood, Preston; and LAC J Marks, of Park Lane, Bradford. Three patients were transferred to another Yorkshire hospital on Monday, are:- A.C.2 R. Waring, Church Road, Banks, near Southport; LAC T Henderson, Gallowan, Dockhead; and LAC E Philips, 16 Portland Street, Gillygate, York. The following were discharged from the Infirmary on Sunday; LAC C Swales,1 Penraeven Terrace, Leeds; Flight Sergeant W Smith, Sherwin Street, Nottingham; LAC J Mackenzie, 4 Bothwell Street, Headingley, Leeds; AC2 E Shorie, The Stowage , Deptford, London; LAC W Ashworth, Stanlet Grove, Longsight, Manchester; and AC1 W Weekes, Alford Bars, Laxwood, Sussex.

An inquest on the eight men who lost their lives was opened by Pontefract District Coroner (Mr W Bentley) at the Courthouse Pontefract on Monday, and was adjourned until next Monday. Evidence of identification only was given, in some cases by relatives and in others by members of the RAF. Mr CW Robinson of York, represented the relatives of Ward and the inquest was attended by Flight Lieutenant GH Rowntree and Flying Officer AG Tullock both of the RAF.

In tendering deep sympathy to the relatives bereaved by what he described as a very tragic occurrence, the Coroner also sympathised with the RAF, which had lost eight young men who had been rendering the best service possible to the country. Police Superintendant A Elliott associated himself with the expression and thanked those who helped the police immediately after the accident, including members of the Civil Defence Services, doctors and staff of the Pontefract General Infirmary. Everyone did his best, said the Superintendant, to save life and prevent suffering. Flight Lieutenant Rowntree offered sympathy to the relatives on behalf of the officers and men of the RAF and he too thanked the Civil Defence and volunteer workers for their valuable help. Mr Robinson thanked the Coroner for his expression.

Councillor TP Brindley, Chairman of the House Committee of the Infirmary has written to Inspector T Downhill ARP Organiser for the Pontefract Joint Area, expressing thanks for the Civil Defence workers great help at the Infirmary; and stating that some of the RAF casualties had expressed great appreciation of what was done for them by the first-aid members and others.

Yesterday only six of the patients remained in the Infirmary, the rest having been transferred to other hospitals. Those remaining were Scott, Irwin, McCann, Bloggs, Shaw and Trott who are still very ill.

 

Second article - The Inquest


SPEED AND LOAD OF RAF BUS – IN MULTIPLE FATALITY. NO CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE FOUND

The speed and overcrowding of an RAF bus, which crashed into a wall at Knottingley late on the night of Saturday February 6th, with the result that eight passengers died and many others were injured, were the subject of comment at the inquiry, held at Pontefract on Monday by the Pontefract and District Coroner (Mr W Bentley)

The dead men were Cpl Herbert Hanson, AC1 Dennis Smollan, AC1 Albert J James, AC2 Norman Ward, Sgt George B Noble, AC2 Herbert Larman, Sgt JT Tremain, Sgt Leonard G Moseley. The bus, which was returning to its station from a recreational outing at Pontefract, was driven by AC1 Trevor Morgan Jones (27) of Sherwood Court, Seymour Place, London. He was represented by Mr RE Taylor of Goole, and did not give evidence. Mr CW Robinson of York appeared for the relatives of Ward.

Medical evidence was given by Dr E Murphy, of Knottingley, Dr BH Gillbank of Brotherton and Dr Robson, the resident Medical Officer at the Pontefract General Infirmary, to the effect that five of the men were dead when taken from the bus and three died in the Infirmary – all with the exception of Ward, from fractured skulls. Ward died from concussion and shock. Dr Robson said 27 men were admitted to the Infirmary, most of them unconscious and suffering from head injuries which indicated that they had been thrown suddenly, without having time to protect themselves.

Pilot Officer AS Attwood (Transport Officer at the aerodrome) said the bus was a 24 seater, excluding the drivers seat, and it was custom to allow four or five passengers to stand. The load should have been about 30. Cpl Hanson had authority to refuse to allow anyone on the bus whose name was not on the list, and the driver could refuse to move if he considered the bus was overloaded. Jones was a good driver and had not had an accident before. The names were checked again when the men returned. Cpl J Abrahams said he called 30 names and saw the owners get on the bus when it left the aerodrome. He gave the list to someone to hand it to Cpl Hanson at Pontefract. Questioned by Superintendant A Elliott, he agreed that no check was made whether 30 or 40 persons got offthe bus on its return. If the names of three of the dead men were not on the list they had no right to be on the bus. AC2 Frank V Harris, whose home is at Ackworth, said he and AC2 Taylor were not on the list but they received permission from the driver to sit in front with him. They left Pontefract at about midnight, and seemed to go at a fairly fast speed. As they approached the corner near the Knottingley Town Hall, the witness became ‘windy’ and said to the driver ‘for heavens sake, ease off’ because he thought they might not get round the corner. Jones appeared to ease up, but they were then half-way round the corner; and the bus seemed to swing round and then it lurched over. Jones drove in a perfectly normal manner.

Cpl W Jeffers stated that when they left Pontefract , he heard the driver say the bus was overcrowded, and that some of the passengers would have to get out and he presumed he was addressing Cpl Hanson. Another passenger AC2 Ernest Shorey also gave evidence; and AC2 Leonard Taylor the second man who sat with the driver, said he was with Jones at a dance during the evening, but earlier they had several drinks at a public house. Jones appeared to be quite fit to drive. He heard Harris warn Jones about the speed.

Capt Eric B Briggs of the Armoured Troops Corps of the RASC, who saw the bus approaching on the road, stated that it was travelling in excess of the speed laid down for Service vehicles, and that he attempted to signal the driver and take disciplinary action but was unsuccessful. He estimated the speed at 40 miles per hour. Shortly after the bus passed him, he heard a crash. He and his companion Betty Charnock, of the Square, Ferrybridge, ran back and found the bus lying on its near side on the pavement. He opened the flap at the back, flashed his torch inside, and saw about 35 men, a number of whom appeared to be seriously hurt. Similar evidence was given by Miss Charnock who described the inside of the bus as ‘a shambles’.

P.C.Stobbs stated that the wall into which the bus crashed collapsed for a distance of over 22 feet. Five of the occupants of the bus were dead when taken into the ARP First-Aid station, and there were 21 stretcher cases, seven sitting and seven walking cases. In a voluntary statement, early on Sunday morning, Jones said he was taking the bend when a dog ran across the road. He swerved to the near-side to avoid it, and braked. The bus skiddedand the near-side wheel went into the gulley. His speed was 20 to 25 miles an hour. The road was wet but visibility was good. He was alone in the driving cabin at the time of the accident. In a second voluntary statement on the following day, Jones said that before that he and Taylor went to the dance they had three pints and one gill of beer each. When he closed the back door of the bus before they left Pontefract, he saw that there were about six men standing inside. His speed was about 30 miles an hour until he reached the bend at the town hall, where he reduced it to about 20. Half way round the bend the weight of the vehicle swung it over to the right, and it overturned. He would have had no difficulty in getting round the bend if the bus had not been so heavily loaded. Mr Taylor said Jones had received notice of intended prosecution, and it did not seem desirable that he should give evidence.

The Coroner thought the instructions about the control of the vehicle were fairly complete, but the responsibility was not discharged of ensuring that it carried only authorised passengers. There were at least 41 passengers on the bus, which was therefore overloaded by 33 per cent. That question was one for the Services, but as the bus was on the road and overloaded to such an extent it was a matter of public concern. “It is appalling to think what might have happened if there had been another vehicle coming in the opposite direction and people on the footpath. I shall say that the bus was driven at an excessive speed not amounting to criminal negligence and the verdict will be ‘death by mis-adventure’ “

 

I know this area very well.The Pontefract/Goole road at this point took a right hand turn just before the Knottingley Town Hall.The plaque is misleading insofar as the location of the accident was at this bend and not at "crossroads" as indicated on the plaque.At this point, opposite the town hall,the road has a steep drop into a quarry, through which, flows the Aire and Calder Canal which runs from Ferrybridge to Goole Docks.So the accident could have been far worse had the bus broke through the wall and plunged into the quarry or into the canal.The road at the bend has been well cambered to assist safe passage through the corner and has been improved to this standard in the early1960s.

Mr W Bentley was the long standing Pontefract and District Coroner.Dr "Obson" was in fact, Dr Robson who went on to become a successful Pontefract dentist,Mr Robson, after his career at Pontefract Infirmary did not progress as he had anticipated.I think he was not the chief medical officer at the time and his decision to change his career was the result of his disappointment in not progressing his medical career further.I was not aware of the background to this until his son related his father's experience, recently, in a Pontefract historical magazine.

The quarry at Knottingley probably dates back to Napoleonic times when limestone was quarried in this part of the Aire valley.These quarries are always dangerous to the unguarded, especially if a potential steep drop into a quarry is not appreciated,a similar quarry is adjacent to Pontefract Infirmary,named Valley Gardens having a low stone wall erected to the pavement.Apparently during the war,RAF serviceman were waiting for a pick up back to RAF Snaith (Pollington) and a couple of airmen,engaged in horseplay, jumped over the wall expecting a 4 foot drop but dropped into the quarry,30 feet below,receiving broken limbs.

Added note.I think the the reason why the location of the accident was said to have taken place at Knottingley "crossroads" was that the road at this point was in reality a T junction,both 90 degree turns with the right hand turn as prevoiusly mentioned,the main road to Goole (RAF Snaith) (Pollington village).The left hand turn was to Aire Street which at the time was Knottingley's town centre which since the war has been redeveloped,old buildings and poor housing stock replaced by modern housing and flats.The left hand turn has been updated to create a minor road branch in the interests of road safety.

A quick reference to Keith S Ford's "Snaith Days" (No 51 Squadron Association) reveals that only Cpl Hanson,Sgt Noble,AC1 Smollen Sgt Tremain are named as casualties in relation to the Knottingley bus accident,while seven RAF personel are recorded as having died and 29 required medical treatment at "Knottingley Hospital".This would be Pontefract Infirmary.Knottingley did not have a hospital.

Selby Cemetery was used for some RAF Snaith casulties.

 

I know this area very well.The Pontefract/Goole road at this point took a right hand turn just before the Knottingley Town Hall.The plaque is misleading insofar as the location of the accident was at this bend and not at "crossroads" as indicated on the plaque.At this point, opposite the town hall,the road has a steep drop into a quarry, through which, flows the Aire and Calder Canal which runs from Ferrybridge to Goole Docks.So the accident could have been far worse had the bus broke through the wall and plunged into the quarry or into the canal.The road at the bend has been well cambered to assist safe passage through the corner and has been improved to this standard in the early1960s.

Mr W Bentley was the long standing Pontefract and District Coroner.Dr "Obson" was in fact, Dr Robson who went on to become a successful Pontefract dentist,Mr Robson, after his career at Pontefract Infirmary did not progress as he had anticipated.I think he was not the chief medical officer at the time and his decision to change his career was the result of his disappointment in not progressing his medical career further.I was not aware of the background to this until his son related his father's experience, recently, in a Pontefract historical magazine.

The quarry at Knottingley probably dates back to Napoleonic times when limestone was quarried in this part of the Aire valley.These quarries are always dangerous to the unguarded, especially if a potential steep drop into a quarry is not appreciated,a similar quarry is adjacent to Pontefract Infirmary,named Valley Gardens having a low stone wall erected to the pavement.Apparently during the war,RAF serviceman were waiting for a pick up back to RAF Snaith (Pollington) and a couple of airmen,engaged in horseplay, jumped over the wall expecting a 4 foot drop but dropped into the quarry,30 feet below,receiving broken limbs.

Added note.I think the the reason why the location of the accident was said to have taken place at Knottingley "crossroads" was that the road at this point was in reality a T junction,both 90 degree turns with the right hand turn as prevoiusly mentioned,the main road to Goole (RAF Snaith) (Pollington village).The left hand turn was to Aire Street which at the time was Knottingley's town centre which since the war has been redeveloped,old buildings and poor housing stock replaced by modern housing and flats.The left hand turn has been updated to create a minor road branch in the interests of road safety.

A quick reference to Keith S Ford's "Snaith Days" (No 51 Squadron Association) reveals that only Cpl Hanson,Sgt Noble,AC1 Smollen Sgt Tremain are named as casualties in relation to the Knottingley bus accident,while seven RAF personel are recorded as having died and 29 required medical treatment at "Knottingley Hospital".This would be Pontefract Infirmary.Knottingley did not have a hospital.

Selby Cemetery was used for some RAF Snaith casulties.

cheers for that Harry - Doc Robsons name now spelt correctly

 

Now, the next question is 'what type of bus' would this have been?

rear opening door, and the driver having a bench seat in the cab large enough to sit 3?

so am I looking at a crew bus, a Leyland Tiger or a Dodge or what ?

 

I will do a little research further into this.It may have been a service vehicle or a requisitioned public service bus.

However, to cram more people on civilian buses,there was the practice of converting the buses from transversal double seating on either side, with the emergency exit door at the back to axial seating where the individual double seats were arranged continuosly on either side of the bus.(West Riding Company Leyland Buses)

In this way more passengers could be carried standing down the aisle and could have more room to stand.Lose the security of the safety hand strap on cornering of the bus and a standing passenger would be thrown on to the seated passengers.

My memory is that the statutory notices regarding the maximum passengers to be seated and the maximum number of passengers allowed to be carried standing was ignored."Don't you know that there's a war on". I would say that overloading of buses was the norm during the war and with the axial arrangement of the seats,children standing were most at danger for they could not reach for the safety hand straps.Thus, I am not surprised about the high numbers of injuried for any converted bus becoming unstable.

The RAF bus may have been also converted and this not recorded.Locally it was said that the casualties occurred through suffocation although the inquest gives the official record.But it can be seen why so many passengers were injuried through overcrowded conditions and being thrown about without having no restraint.

 

it so happens that the weather that day was very bad - maybe a factor? My uncle died that night on the SS Pacific whilst on convoy down to London from Sunderland carrying coal - his ship was lost with all hands (32 men) - ship went down in a storm when it overturned. I have a copy of the Met Office UK records for the day if that helps you.

 

third and final article

The trial - Pontefract & Castleford Express March 1943

RAF BUS DRIVER FINED AFTER KNOTTINGLEY SMASH

An echo of the RAF bus smash at Knottingley, nearly five weeks ago resulting in the death of eight men was heard at the West Riding Police Court, Pontefract yesterday week, when the driver Corporal Trevor M Jones whos home is in London, was summoned for driving in a dangerous manner, and also without due care and attention. He was represented by Mr RE Taylor, of Goole, who pleaded guilty of the second offence.

Police Superintendant A.Elliott recalled that the bus was returning from a recreational outing at Pontefract to a Yorkshire aerodrome. It was a 24-seater, and four people were allowed to stand; but it was alleged that 41 members of the RAF were in it when the accident occurred and that it was travelling at a fast speed. What ever the speed it was too fast to enable it to take the right hand bend near the Town hall. The back wheels struck the near-side kerb, and the bus crashed into a wall and overturned. It was also alleged, added the Superintendant, that the bus was overloaded, but that was somebody else’s responsibility. The defendant was responsible for the way in which it was driven, and had he taken the corner at a proper speed, the accident would not have happened. He lost control of the vehicle, and the deaths mentioned were the result, as well as severe injuries to a number of the occupants. There was no doubt that the defendant had already suffered considerably through the loss and injury to his RAF colleagues, but a public duty in the way of a prosecution had to be performed. The Superintendant took the opportunity to pay tribute to the work performed by members of the Civil Defence Services, the military, and members of the public after the accident, with special reference to the workers at the Knottingley First-Aid post and to the staff at the Pontefract General infirmary.

In view of the plea of guilty only three witnesses were called by the prosecutor, Betty Charnock of Ferrybridge said she received an impression of speed as the RAF lorry passed her; and Ernest Wood of Knottingley, described the speed as fast – about 40 miles per hour ‘I saw it go round the bend; then it seemed as thought the driver put on the brake, the back wheels caught the kerb, and the vehicle overturned across the footpath.’ PC Stobbs described the scene when he arrived, and said 41 men were taken to the First-Aid Post. In a voluntary statement, the defendant said he swerved to avoid a dog; and in a second one made on the following day he said he had no difficulty with the bus during the journey from Pontefract to Knottingley. He was travelling at about 30 miles per hour and when about 90 yards from the bend near the Town hall he reduced the speed to about 20. Half-way round the bend the weight of the vehicle swung it over to the nearside, so that he was unable to complete the turn and the bus overturned. The next thing he remembered was climbing out of the drivers cab. He could not recall making the first statement in the Police Station. PC Stobbs added that much heavy traffic used the road and the bend was not difficult if negotiated properly. The speed limit in a built-up area in the blackout was 20 miles an hour.

Mr Taylor said Jones appreciated the kindness and consideration shown to him by the Police Superintendant and other Officers: and the RAF also were grateful for the services rendered by all concerned. He emphasised that the Magistrates should remember they were not trying the defendant for having caused deaths, injuries or damage. No one regretted the calamity more than Jones, but the case had to be kept in its proper perspective. He submitted that the accident was caused by the overloading of the vehicle and its speed. There were 15 men standing, instead of the four allowed and it was probable that if the load had been normal the bus would not have overturned. It was apparent that the speed was not reduced sufficiently to enable the bus to negotiate the bend safety although the driver had stated it was 20 miles an hour. The defendant was a capable driver with a good record, and the wife of one of the dead men had written to him expressing sympathy with him in his unfortunate position and assuring him she knew the accident was not caused wilfully.

Jones was fined £5 and £1 in costs for dangerous driving, and his licence was endorsed. The bench did not accept the opinion that the bend was not a difficult one, on the ground that representations for its improvement had frequently been made.

 

Capt Bill
Thanks for the post, it shows the other face of war and its repercussions, also interesting is they way the local bench operated when faced with the details.
It makes you wonder how many other incidents like this happened and the cost in service personnel

 

Passed through Knottingley this past weekend and scanning the scene of the crash was surprised to to see the outline of the repairs to the stone wall.

It is fortunate that the bus did not break through the wall as the drop into the quarry would have resulted in a large loss of life.Breaking through the wall a short distance further on,would have resulted in the bus plunging into the canal.

 

Just found out about this when looking up my wifes mum. She was the betty charnock who gave evidence although this is the first that we knew about this.

 

Nice to find out more about this bus crash as it sounds like the one my father was in. He was based at RAF Snaith during World War 2 and mentioned the bus crash that occurred on the way back from an evening out at Pontefract. I did not know the bus was so overloaded but I had heard before that the bus had swerved to avoid a dog. If I recall correctly my father was unconscious for a time and his great coat had to be discarded as it was covered in blood. A "Yank" pulled him out of the bus. He was at an infirmary for a while and was sent to a different base due to the trauma of the crash. This meant he avoided the Snaith bomb dump explosion of June 1943. RAF Snaith Bomb Dump Explosion

His name was Robert Davey - service #1413668. It sounds like he was very fortunate to avoid serious injury. He died in his eighties and is survived by his four children.

 

For further info on Snaith Bomb Dump Explosion:
Aircraft accidents in Yorkshire.

Tim

 

Resurrecting this thread, to add a few bits and possibly some thoughts/questions of anyone local, who might stumble across this (like me).

Cpl Hanson, who died before being pulled out of the bus, was (here we go...) the husband of my first cousin, twice removed. In simpler terms, she was my great grandfather’s cousin and Herbert Hanson, was her husband.

They had 3 children by the time of his death on that February night in 1943. She was from Leeds – Kathleen Mervin, he was from Huddersfield. She remained there after his death and remarried before the end of the year! I have a picture of her, given to me by my grandmother, taken in possibly the late 40's.

In the House of Commons, later in 1943, a question was asked regarding the pensions of some of the injured men in the bus, who were unfit to return to service. The pensions minister answered the question and stated only one of the deceased left a widow – which would have been Kathleen and she was able to draw his pension. Herbert Hanson was the oldest of the men killed, at 33. The others were in their early 20’s – even one as young as 19, such a waste.

The statement is interesting, as it ties with the news reports posted above. “A wife of one of the deceased…” which can only have been Kathleen “wrote to the driver” to state that she didn’t think he (Jones) caused her husband’s death wilfully. Which is interesting when pieced together.

Jones claims to have had 3 and 1/4 pints. Albeit, I believe an early report above said, that a witness stated they'd been drinking earlier in another pub... so maybe that 3.25 pints is optimistic. By today's standards, Jones would be serving a sentence I dare say.

-----------------------------

I’ve researched the 51st Squadron (and RAF Burn, the satellite) as they are the closest air fields to me. I live in-between Knottingley and Snaith also, so know the corner of the accident very well, on many routine trips to the Morrisons super market just up hill top road. It’s still one of the those corners, that I would take very cautiously in a car & more so on a bike.

What I don’t understand fully is which wall was hit, based on this thread.

If it was the vicarage wall, I can’t see evidence of it being patched up, like on a previous comment. It has been rendered and painted over the years, from google street view, so it is impossible to tell.

The alternative wall, (patched up stone wall mentioned), runs parallel to the road, prior to the bend, so I don’t think it was there. I think the articles above mention the vicarage wall also. I’ve put some images below.



The blue line is the current direction of travel from Pontefract back to RAF Snaith. The red line being, the vicarage wall, as based on the old map below. However, back then, would the ‘current' best route have been the best route? Going round Chapel street, onto Aire street (the old main road of shops etc) might have been the best way, which would have been a left turn. It is slightly shorter, meeting up with Weeland road to head off towards Snaith etc. I'd never go that way, as we have options using todays routes.
Anyway, the old map I mentioned....:



There are a few others that show the vicarage and a map between 1949 and 1969 which doesn’t. Some have the vicarage set further road the corner…

This would be the ‘vicarage’ wall in the present day, well… 2008



It’s then had a bit of render, in 2012 and then in 2016 it was 80% rendered to look like brick work (not pictured)



I think that this is the wall in question, as it’s after the turn to the corner is made and should have been near enough in 1943 also.
Following that road around the corner to chapel street, the wall is totally different and more akin to the old stone walls that line the cenotaph corner and parallel wall that is mentioned below.

However, the stone wall that has been rebuilt in a decent sized section is here:



This is before a turn is even made. But it does look ‘fresh’ in a certain section, maybe not 80 years old fresh, but still.. It is technically the wall to the cenotaph and bends round chapel street. I just don’t think this is the wall. I think the commenter above might be mistaken, or maybe it is me - not reading their comments correctly.

This is the view, from the opposite direction (heading left at the bend, to go towards Pontefract, looking back)



I don't class the above as being part of the vicarage wall, even though plenty of sections of it have been rebuilt.


-----

Changing focus slightly, look at these undated photos of the corner (and the wall I think it was)..



Judging by the bus, possibly 1950's, 1960's, but it is still a VERY sharp turn, more so than today (and I hate it now!).
The wall here is not in keeping with the remainder, going further round Chapel street.

It is a shame, the plaque is not here.
Does anyone know where exactly the plaque in the first post is actually located?

 

The wall in question is the wall to the right of the old Knottingley Town Hall which envelops the canal and old quarry below. The RAF bus was conducting a right hand turn from Hill Top into Weeland Road to continue on to Pollington and collided with the wall on its near side presumably from the effect of centrifugal forces/loss of control, given that it was stated that the bus was overloaded.

The building shown with the bus is no longer there but a view of the wall from the opposite pavement clearly shows the outline of the repair undertaken all those years ago.

The remembrance plaque is situated at the RAF Snaith (Pollington) airfield wartime entrance. The Remembrance Garden was created on the site of the former Station HQ and commemorates the dead by plaques of those who served at RAF Snaith and died in service. There is also a plaque to a deceased member of No 51 Squadron whose idea it was to create the garden about 30 years ago.

 

To the right of the town hall, is this (where there was a row of buildings as you describe from that other photo) going down Ropewalk to the left, Weeland road bottom right towards where I live.



The buildings are there on early maps (prior to 1949) but gone on anything I can find after.

It's a fair bit, past the town hall as well as the newspaper saying it was the vicarage wall it took out - which is the other side of the town hall.

Will see if I can find any dated photos of Knottingley. Or do you know that this was the exact location?

 

I watched (no laughing) a youtube video of 'most haunted' about the town hall this evening. It had a very short section of some footage of a grieving family member and an airman, placing something on a casket. Unsure if it was original footage, I tried searching for it, to no avail.

 

I'd not paid attention when I was there last in the Autumn - but then, I'd not known of a loose connection to my family tree either, so will look for it when I go again.
Is it Renee you speak of? I bumped into her last year there. Not knowing it was her books, I'd bought 10 years prior.

My step-father's family used to farm poultry on the end of the airfield. I spent a while learning to drive, near the entrance and part of the runway!

 

This is a better version of the 'bus' photo. I was well off on the year, I think this is late 20's early 30's, judging by that car.
Look how bad the bend is though.



This is from 1930, if you've not been on Britain from above, I can highly recommend it. Britain From Above




This is probably the earliest picture of the corner, which doesn't look like a corner at all. More like a T junction and 90 degree, like mentioned in a previous post.


Based on that aerial one, I'd still be thinking it's the wall to the left of the town hall, rather than the one to the right. Unless it was definitively confirmed.

The left one also has this step in it, which could just be coincidental, but isn't there on the really early photo/postcard.

 

RAF Snaith log book, brief of the incident. Which shows the date recorded as the 6.2.43.