7th Battalion Seaforth highlanders Feb 1945

Hi

I'm new to this and hope I am posting in the correct forum. I have noted from other posts that many here, are very well informed and to be honest, I am a little lost as to where to start with it all.

I am looking to find information on my Grandfather, Lance Sgt Charles Sherrington Dobbing service no: 2819260 who served in the 15th Scottish Division (7th battalion Seaforth Highlanders) and died on Feb 15th 1945 during Operation Veritable. He was presumably en route to the capture of Moyland Castle (from what I have read and according to the date he died). I am looking to find out more detail about his exact whereabouts and exactly what caused his death, if that is possible. I am not sure whether war diaries would hold that information or if this would be available from some other source.

My Grandmother reportedly didn't talk about what happened much, to my father so he has very little to go off and as he is in his seventies, he is not very good at all with computers to carry out research. He has said that he was told that his father and 18 other men died on the same day at a crossroads but I don't know any more than that. Having looked at various maps mostly on this site, I cannot seem to pinpoint exactly where this would be and I'm also thinking that this theory might not be based on solid fact. A poignant fact is that he apparently nearly deserted after leave at the end of January 1945 anticipating what was ahead of him but was talked round into going back. A few weeks later my Grandmother received the telegram.

He had joined the army in 1933 so was serving right throughout the war and I think it was such a shame to know that he died so close to the end.

Anyone who has any information which may be relevant, please respond. It would be interesting to hear from relatives of those who served in the same battalion/operation and also died on the same day/week. Their information may give me more clues as to how my Grandfather may have died.

Much appreciated

 

I'll post some of the diary up for you when I get home from work...They suffered quite heavy casualties fighting to secure a wood if I remember correctly.

 

It must have been somewhere around Hasselt ... to the east of Cleve (Germany).

See for further details post 37 and onwards: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/50898-veritable-15th-scottish-43rd-wessex-divisions-in-the-reichswald-battle-feb-1945/?p=603718

 

From the battalions war diary

 

Hi Drew - Do you have the complete WD entry for Feb 12th?

 

Wow!! Thankyou so much for all of that. i didn't expect to get this information so quickly. I notice the diary is for B company and I am wondering if my Grandfather was in this company or if he was maybe in another. It's a shame the diary notes do not have a write up of the 15th. It goes from 12th to 16th missing out days in between, I wonder why this is? Interesting to note that 11 were recorded as missing on 15th. Could some of these be due to desertion or is this highly unlikely?
Thanks again, I am so grateful for all of this information, I can't wait to show my Dad.

 

Two maps of the area.

Map 1: gives some of the Map References mentioned in the War Diary entries for Feb 15th

Map 2: Positions held by the Seaforth on the morning of the 16th

 

Very interesting, thank you. Your previous post was also extremely detailed and it brings it all to life. Poignant to see the places he has been through, knowing his fate was sealed. Poor soul.

 

Added to the original post mate

 

The only other file I can suggest that may shed some light on things is the battalions WO 361 Missing Men file at the National Archives-He may get a mention in that.

 

Here's his Commonwealth War Graves details. One of the reports gives a grid reference to his original burial location.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2036203/DOBBING,%20CHARLES%20SHERRINGTON

 

Thanks Andy, re the battalions WO 361 file, where would I apply to get access to this? I'd ideally love to have confirmation one way or another and am willing to pay for the relevant documents.

 

war diarys 15th scotish div 15th feb 1945 my dad kia how was he killed ?? charles s dobbing service no2819260

 

I think most of your answers are in this thread that you posted in: 7th Battalion Seaforth highlanders Feb 1945

 

Malcolm also have a look here:

VERITABLE 1945: 15th Scottish & 43rd Wessex Divisions in the Reichswald battle

 

Some minor info on the battalion for mid-1944, as part of this medal grouping which up for sale right now:

Military Medal GVI, 1939/45 Star, France and Germany Star, Defence and War Medals to Private James Fletcher Murray, 1/7th Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders from Elgin, born in 1914. Awarded the Military Medal for his gallantry in Normandy notably on 26th June 1944 for rescuing wounded men from a minefield on several occasions and on 29th June 1944 for rescuing two occupants of an armourer car which came under sustained small arms fire and burst into flames. Returning to Scotland after the war, he took employment as a Woodcutter and died in Inverness 16th June 2003 aged 89 years.

Military Medal GVI

2927719 Pte J F Murray Seaforth

1939/45 Star, France and Germany Star, Defence and War Medals

Unnamed as issued

With copy recommendation, death certificate and other research.

James Fletcher Murray was born in Elgin 15th February 1914 and served with the 1/7th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders in North West Europe, following the end of the war he lived in Inverness where he was employed as a woodcutter, he died in Inverness 16th June 2003 aged 89 years.

The recommendation states –

“At 1100 rs on 26th June 1944 as a stretcher bearer, Private Murray entered a minefield at 904695 accompanied by another stretcher bearer Pte Riddell and cleared out several wounded men. Other stretcher bearers had hesitated to do this. Again on 29th June at Le Valtru without hesitation or orders he cleared a wounded man from a burning scout car which was under small arms fire. At Le Valtru on 29 and 30 June he was continually collecting wounded during enemy mortar concentrations, without waiting for them to stop”.

The Aberdeen Press and Journal reported on 20th July 1944 under the title “North Men Laughed at Death” by War Correspondent J H Morgan

“They were modest but their Commanding Officer told their story. They literally laughed at death these two stretcher bearers Pte J F Murray and Pte C Riddell of Elgin, but when it came to relating their adventures they were modesty itself. They belonged to 15th (Scottish) Division, which formed the spearhead of the recent assault between Caen and Tilly. I made a special visit to the Division which was resting after six days “jungle” fighting in what became known as the Scottish Corridor. The bravery of the stretcher bearers is recognised by all of one of the Battalions I visited. At great personal risk Privates Murray and Riddle went into a live minefield to collect wounded from another Battalion. Three times they returned to this death trap and on one occasion had to lift up a body which was badly maimed which lay on top of an unexploded mine.

There was another occasion when these two brave stretcher bearers risked their lives on an errand of mercy. A scout car with a Colonel, a dispatch rider and a driver was racing down the road right into enemy positions. It was too late to warn them and they came under a withering fire. The Colonel who had his head through the turret was hit in the head and killed. The driver who showed great presence of mind, tried to reverse back to safety and reached 100 yards when the car burst into flames. This did not deter the stretcher bearers Murray and Riddle who ran down the road through the enemy fire and pulled the driver and dispatch rider from the burning wreck”.

7th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders

The 7th Battalion was part of the 46th Infantry Brigade of the 15th (Scottish) Division which landed in Normandy on 14th June 1944 on Sword Beach. They joined this brigade on 15th November 1941 and served there until it was disbanded on 31st August 1945. The 15th Division was involved in fighting at Caen in Normandy during operation Epsom. Operation Epsom was an attack intended to outflank and seize Caen. It did not achieve its overall objective but forced the Germans to abandon their offensive plans and tied most of their armoured units to a defensive role. Operation Epsom was launched on 26th June 1944. Although held up on parts of the front by infantry of the 12th SS Panzer Division, the 15th Division and the 31st Armoured Brigade gained four miles on their left flank. On 27th June, after repulsing small armoured counter-attacks, the division gained more ground and captured a bridge over the river Odon. The 11th Armoured Division passed through to capture Hill 112. The first battle for this hill was fought at the end of operation Epsom, when the tanks of the 11th Armoured Division broke out from the bridgehead at Tourmauville. The 23rd Hussars were only able to capture and hold the hill with difficulty. The Germans recaptured the hill. Important surrounding villages were captured by the Allies. In August 1944 the Germans withdrew from the hill. The Division fought virtually continuously from then on through Caumont, the Seine Crossing, the Geel bridgehead, Best, Tilburg, Meijel, Blerick, Broekhuizen, The Maas and across the Rhine. On 29th April 1945 they crossed the Elbe river and fought on to the Baltic, occupying both Lubeck and Kiel.