77 Field Regiment, R.A.

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by vpunch, May 29, 2010.

  1. vpunch

    vpunch Junior Member

    Looks like I may be posting in the wrong area, sorry, but a pic I found in this topic through a Google search made me join and post here. Ramacal posted a pic (above, p.97) about a great uncle of mine, Tommy Elliott from Port Glasgow who died in Ledringhem. EDIT see this thread from which this query has been moved http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/21194-royal-artillery-roll-honour-1939-47-a-97.html#post289233

    I'm confusing myself with the the finer details concerning his time in the army - I know barely anything about divisions, regiments etc, was hoping someone here could help me. Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery Unit Text: 77 Field Regt. The 5th Gloucesters were known to be in Ledringhem at the time Tommy was killed, but from a Scottish point of view, and in the grander scheme of things, the 51st Highland Infantry Division were around too (which had a 77th Regiment, Royal Artillery element). From his details, does this mean he was in the 77th Field regiment of the actual Royal Artillerry, or was he in the Highlanders, or some other grouping but in the chaos of Dunkirk found himself scattered from his main group? The 4th Infantry Division also had a 77th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery - all these 77s and Royal Artillery mentions are the things causing the confusion for me. For someone who doesn't know much about military history, I hope you can all understand it is a tad daunting. Apologies, but I have no idea where to look and hoping someone here could help me. Many thanks.
     
  2. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Hi Vpunch

    I am glad you got a google hit so quickly, as I only posted the photo yesterday. Did them back in February and thought in view of the Anniversary, it was about time I got them posted. If you would like a copy of the images below and of your Great Uncle's Headstone, send me a private message though this Forum.

    There is only one 77 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery and it was part of the 4th Infantry Division.

    Nothing to do with the 51st Highland Division.They were further South and cut off by the time your great Uncle became a casualty.

    The cemetery at Ledringhem has graves of mainly Gloucesters, a few Warwicks, Cheshires and Worcesters. Either your relative had become seperated from his unit or they were somehow temporarily attached to the Division from which the Gloucesters and the others belonged (48th Division). By this time, it was total confusion and one of the BEF experts may be able to help with more information.

    Ledringhem itself was the scene of a defence by the 5th Battalion Gloucesters and some vicious fighting took place.

    In case you have never been there, I will attach a photo of the Cemetery at Ledringhem for you shortly.

    Regards - Rob
     
  3. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

  4. vpunch

    vpunch Junior Member

    Hi Rob Thanks for the quick response - much appreciated. I have never been to Ledringhem, but have the intention of going one day. Up until now, i've only had the one pic of the cemetery that I found on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site, so it's nice to have the pics you took - especially the individual shot of the grave, which i've never seen before. Hope you don't mind, I've saved them to my PC. My family will be interested to see the pics. Cheers again. Andy
     
  5. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Andy

    I'll ask a moderator to create a new thread, so that others can contribute and maybe give you more info.

    No probs with copying the pics. That's why I and other kind Forum members post them here, in the hope that relatives can see them and have free copies.

    Do you live anywhere near the public records office at Kew where the Regiment's war diaries are held?
     
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  6. vpunch

    vpunch Junior Member

    That would be nice, again, many thanks.

    I live in Glasgow...just a little bit too far, with too little time to be able to go down. Taking a look a the National Archives site just now, with not much luck. Got a lot of info from the CWGC site and from yourself so far; would be nice to know his movements leading up to his death in Ledringhem - judging from all the posts in this forum, a lot of you know your stuff!
     
  7. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    There is a war diary of 77 Field Regiment for the period in question.

    WO 167/497

    I can add it to my list of stuff to look at when I next go, but that could be quite a while yet.
     
  8. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Thanks D
     
  9. vpunch

    vpunch Junior Member

    That would be great, cheers. Look forward to finding out more - no pressure and no rush!
     
  10. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    77 (Highland) Field Regiment RA were part of 51 Highland Division until about March 1940 when they were transfered to the 4 Div. I will check through my books and see if I can fill in with a bit more detail.

    One of my books gives an earlier date for the transfer to 4 Div, January or possibly a little earlier. They are reported as being at Croix near Roubaix in January 1940 as part of 4 Div.

    The only other mention is the 77th were defending the River Dendre with 4 Div around Assche and Merchtem around the 17/18th May.
     
  11. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Nice one Derek. That solves the mystery of the 51HD link. What little info I do have only shows 4 Division.

    Thanks - Rob
     
  12. claudette

    claudette Junior Member

    Hi vpunch

    My father was an officer in 306 Battery, 77 Highland Field Regiment, R.A.

    I have photos of the unit war diaries for 1940 from Kew if you are interested.

    According to the Nominal Roll of Personnel Proceeding Overseas dated February 1940, it looks like your great-uncle Tommy Elliott (A/Bdr and No. 792029) was in 305 Battery if that's any help.

    Best wishes
    Claudette
     
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  13. vpunch

    vpunch Junior Member

    Wow, just wow. I'm genuinely impressed and very grateful to you all for the responses. Claudette, to be able to see photos of the diaries would be great!
     
  14. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It is rather fortunate to find a list of other ranks with the war diary but it does seem to be more common with territorial units. Perhaps not surprising as they knew each other well from pre-war days and things were less formal than with the regulars.

    According to Malcolm Bellis, 77th were exchanged with 17th Field regiment of 4th division in February 1940. This was part of a policy of moving experienced regular units into territorial divisions and vice-versa and can be seen right across the BEF.
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Rob I take it this is the thread you texted me about when I was in France last month?

    Hi Claudette and welcome to the forum.

    Hi Mark and welcome to the forum-would you like to know some more about what happened at Ledringham at the end of May?

    Regards
    Andy
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Name: ELLIOTT, THOMAS
    Rank: Bombardier
    Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
    Unit Text: 77 Field Regt.
    Age: 28
    Date of Death: between 27/05/1940 and 29/05/1940
    Service No: 792029
    Additional information: Son of William and Jane Elliott of Port Glasgow ; husband of Eileen Thomson Elliott of Port Glasgow.
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Row D. Grave 2.
    Cemetery: LEDRINGHEM CHURCHYARD

    [​IMG]

    Just to add to the above:

    Elliot is listed with 14 other named men and 5 unknown as being provisionaly buried at the cemetery and Derram's pasture. All these men were exhumed on 24th and 25th May 1941 and reintered in the municipal cemetery at Ledringhem by MM. Marcel Picotin, Pierre Scheers, and Jules Chabaille.
     
    Buteman likes this.
  17. vpunch

    vpunch Junior Member

    Hello all, apologies for not responding for a while, been a bit busy.

    Many thanks for the extra info Drew!

    If anyone has info as to what happened at Ledringhem, that too would be greatly appreciated.
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    As mentioned the regiment was in 11th Brigade, 4th Division.

    I only have two entries of the regiment in a brief divisonal history. The first being that when the 11th Brigade deployed to Brussels along the Charleroi canal on the 16th May they were supported by the 77th Field Regt. and on the 21st May they suffered heavy losses due to them being well forward in the Escaut area because of the short range of their guns. They lost several guns in this action.

    From what I can figure either he got seperated from his unit or his unit from the brigade as the brigade was up in Belgium. The units War Diary will have the details-did you obtain a copy?

    Regards
    Andy
     
  19. cbfuk

    cbfuk Junior Member

    Hi all

    I'm also trying to find details on a relative KIA while serving with 77th R.A. in the BEF. He was Gnr. William Thomson, age 20, from Greenock; unlike vpunch we unfortunately don't have a grave site as a clue to where he died - only a listing on the Dunkirk memorial and a date range 28/05/40 and 02/06/40.

    Can anyone here help shed any light on this? For example, does the fact he is listed on the Dunkirk Memorial mean he was known to have made it to the town, or merely that he was never found? Is the date range significant, or just a "catch-all" used where no specific date is known?

    I have applied for copies of the regimental diary and his service record, but given that there was obviously no clear idea of when or where he was lost, I am not too hopeful these will help much.

    So, any help anyone can offer here will be most gratefully received.

    Thanks
     
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Welcome to the forum.

    The Dunkirk Memorial deals with all army losses for the 1940 campaign in France and Flanders with no known burial. The date range would have been based on enquiries and suggests that he was not seen alive after 28th May and that he did not appear on any list of prisoners after the evacuation.

    It would be worthwhile checking the diary for activity on 28th May but will probably not give a definitive answer. Drew may be able to help with indications regarding the availability of a 'missing men' file.

    The 1940 campaign by its nature gave rise to a lot of burials which could not be positively identified for re-burial after the war. Many were identified at the time of death but the graves not individually marked and many of the witnesses were likely to have been captured making information even less precise.

    Have you tried 'Geoff's Search Engine' linked via this site ? It may help you to see patterns realting to deaths in the unit based on dates and locations.
     

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