6th D Day landing beach and their code names - Band Beach etc.

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by frankkelsall, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    A bit more on Operations Frog and Deer planned for D Day or D + 1.

    In a report from Commander T.I Scott-Bell, DSC,RN, Naval Force Commander Force Regulator, dated 8th July 1944 he states " arrived at RV with HMS Scylla at area Juno at 18.30… ordered to report to HMS Largs…..Largs had no instructions. I pointed out to COS Force S that in view of the weather I considered either operation hazardous estimating I would lose craft in landing and withdrawal.

    I asked for 24 hours postponement and this was referred to Naval Commander Eastern Task Force. In view of the damage to the batteries by air and sea bombardment it was decided that the operations were unnecessary.

    It was submitted that 46 Commando could at least could report results of bombardment and demolish any remaining gun. This was not approved. "

    Regards

    Danny
     
  2. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The Yanks did Andy. Because they took so many casualties themselves
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    "something special" = Le Havre?

    SS Princess Margaret and HMS Prins Albert were both assigned to "Assault Group J4 - Commando and Ranger Lifts - Both Task Forces", arguably something special.
    A chap's contacted me re Prince Albert, and I assume it relates to this thread:

    Hi,
    My Late Father's ship in WW2 was the HMS Prins Albert and I can assure you that she was at Normandy on D-Day.

    She took part in the Dieppe and Lofoten (Norway) (commando's) raids. After she was moved south into the Mediterranean for the North-African and Sicily invasions, where she was attacked by German U-boats. After the Normandy landings, she sailed to India and Burma and Singapore. She carried more than 25.000 soldiers.

    Regards
    Maritime History - Home

    The website's well worth a shufti for more pictures of that ship.
    ~A
     
  4. Mikal

    Mikal Junior Member

    I have never found any verification for actually assaulting Band from documents or those who trained for this in the Orford area. No one from 22nd Dragoons is aware of the possible plan to land to the east of Sword.

    It's odd no funny unit was assigned since the beach training started as early as february for some Squadrons.

    In the days following D Day B Sqn, 22D, moved across to support the paras and foud the ground tough going (this may have been due to the weight of the jibs, finding senior diaries is still ongoing).
     
  5. Noel Burgess

    Noel Burgess Senior Member

    There has been speculation on the "D Day mystery units" thread here that Band beach may have been intended to be a decoy beach - this sounds more plausible to me but I'm still not convinced - perhaps someone can help: -

    My understanding is that the capture of "Pegasus" bridge and subsequent Airbourne landings were intended to secure the left flank of the beaches [i.e. a static, defensive position] untill the main forces pivoted about Caen with the US forces lining up and then everyone advancing to the river Seine & Paris
    If this is correct then would not Band be right on the front line and so not suitable for any purpose? Does anyone know what the intended position of this "defensive" line was?
    Noel
     
  6. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    from Cossac report for the War Cabinet, Chief of Staffs Committee July 1943.

    'The main beaches captured in the initial assault have sufficient theoretical capacity to land vehicles of the build up formations and the large quantity of stores required. The heavy strain imposed on them might well cause deterioration of the beaches. It is considered essential to develop additional beaches as soon as possible. There are no suitable beaches to the west of the assault beaches. Only two stretches of the two beaches which lie east of the assault beaches can be used so it is considered that both beaches must be secured.'

    Of course a lot changed before D Day, including commanders and planners.

    Mike
     
  7. JonS

    JonS Member

    from Cossac report for the War Cabinet, Chief of Staffs Committee July 1943.

    'The main beaches captured in the initial assault have sufficient theoretical capacity to land vehicles of the build up formations and the large quantity of stores required. The heavy strain imposed on them might well cause deterioration of the beaches. It is considered essential to develop additional beaches as soon as possible. There are no suitable beaches to the west of the assault beaches. Only two stretches of the two beaches which lie east of the assault beaches can be used so it is considered that both beaches must be secured.'

    Of course a lot changed before D Day, including commanders and planners.

    Mike
    Well, in July 1943 SWORD was not one of the assault beaches, so they did take up "the beaches which lie east of the assault beaches" before June 1944 :)
     
  8. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    from 6 Airborne Division orders.

    In its general role of protecting the left flank of I Corps the airborne division was given two primary tasks:
    a) The capture of the bridges at Benouville and Renville (intact if possible).
    b) The destruction or neutralisation of the battery at Merville.

    Secondary tasks were, as soon as resources permitted:
    a) Mop up and secure the area between the Rivers Orne and Dives.
    b) Operate offensively from a firm base to the east of the Orne to delay enemy reserves.

    ' Having demolished the bridges along the River Dives detachments were to be left to cover the demolitions.'

    I guess the River Dives was the defence line.

    1 Corps orders may have more to say.

    Mike.
     
  9. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

  10. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Having made the crossing from Portsmouth to Ouistreham many times I can also advise that Trux's comments re 'beaches further west unsuitable' appears true.
    Whilst perhaps not evident at high tide, at low tide the beaches west of Ouistreham are very shallow with large mud flats in areas. I am guessing the shelving of the beaches would not be suitable for landing craft and the beaches themselves not suitable for heavy vehicle traffic.
    Anyone got sources on the pre-D-Day beach surveys? were these beaches surveyed?
     
  11. tonyrod

    tonyrod Junior Member

    hope this helps,
    6th June 1944 46 ROYAL MARINE COMMANDOS
    Place: Cowes Roads
    1230 - LSsI sailed in company with H.M.S. ISIS (Destroyer escort).
    HMS PRINS ALBERT AND HMS PRINCESS MARGARET
    Place: At Sea

    1830 - Arrived at anchorage JUNO (off ST. AUBIN-SUR-MER) proceeding one hour later to anchorage SWORD (off OUISTREHAM) to report to Flag Officer, Force S.

    2200 - The order was received that both operations were postponed as neither of the
    Btys was harassing our shipping and also because the weather was not altogether favourable for the operations. The LSsI returned to anchorage JUNO for the night.

    7th June 1944
    Place: At Sea

    0600 - Signal received that the unit was to come under command 1 Corp and to be landed on NAN WHITE Beach as early as possible. Hasty re-adjustments and improvisations were made to equipment.
    Place: Hernieres 002853

    0900 - The unit was landed by the ships flotillas on NAN WHITE Beach.
    Orders were received that the unit was to capture strongpoint PETIT ENFER area
    048833 - 052830 - 051829 - 047832 with u/c one troop RMAS Gp.

    1330 - Attack in three phases commenced from rd junc 033838.
    Place: Petit Enfer
    1800 - Strongpoint surrendered; 65 prisoners (716 Coastal Div) were captured, together with a considerable quantity of enemy weapons and equipment. Own casualties - NIL.

    2000 - Orders were received that two troops were to occupy LA DELIVERANDE 0881 jointly with 7 Black Watch that evening after a heavy naval bombardment.
    Place: La Deliverande
    my ww1-2 family site and hms prins albert, the poem was written by albert timms crew member hms prins albert, i spoke to albert a few years ago about d-day june1944 , he new it was something special .
    WW1 - Rodaways of ww1-2
     
  12. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Commandos and Band Dog.

    I have just found the following hidden at the end of the Landing Tables for Gold. This fits with the above post(s).

    Table dated April 1944.

    46 Commando.
    To land on Band Dog Beach at 0200 hours, D+1.
    Landing from LSI(H) 76 in 6 LCA.
    180 men from 46 RM Commando.
    Landing from LSI(S) 77 in 8 LCA.
    250 men from 46 RM Commando.

    47 Commando.
    To land east of Band Dog Beach at 0200 hours, D+1.
    Landing from LSI(H) 78 in 6 LCA.
    180 men from 47 RM Commando.
    Landing from LSI(S) 79 in 8 LCA.
    250 men from 47 RM Commando.

    Mike
     
  13. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I don't know where you get your info Owen. But the East York's landed on Queen beach White. The South lancs landed on Queen red. I Am definitely NOT Wrong.

    This is the actual post invasion report since you disbelieve me!

    3 platoon Lt MH Edwards RE. Sgt G J Davies
    on the right under command of 1st S lancs with 4 demolition teams. Each carrying two 30lb "Beehive " charges. and two mine clearing teams.

    Lt RAC Trench RE. Sgt EH Rees.
    On the left similarly deployed under command 2nd East York's.
    Sapper
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I don't know where you get your info Owen. But the East York's landed on Queen beach White. The South lancs landed on Queen red. I Am definitely NOT Wrong.

    You've lost me there Brian.
    :huh:
    I'm looking at a transcription of war diary for 1 South Lancs & it says their first wave landed on Queen White at 07.20.

    As does Scarfe's Divsional history on page 69.
    Queen White was on the right , the first objective of the South Lancs.
    Page 70 it says East Yorks were on Red Beach .

    Also Delaforce' book Monty's Ironside chapters Five & Six.

    The colour of the beaches has nothing to do with the colour of the Roses of Yorkshire or Lancshire.

    edit just found this.
    >> Sword assault

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/nw-europe/attachment.php?attachmentid=53161&d=1307962830
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    I do not want to join in a private argument but it would not be the first or only time that a report contained an error. Several have been found in War Diaries.

    I have photo images of several War Diaries and reports and all agree that S. Lancs landed on Queen White and E. Yorks on Queen Red. I am with Sapper in not trusting secondary sources but even original documents are not infallible.

    Mike
     
  16. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Coming in from the sea the East Yorks certainly landed on the left and South Lancs on the right as they ran into trouble at Strong Point Cod there.

    I'll try and post a map tomorrow.
     
  17. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Remember who named the beach sub-sectors: port is red and green is starboard. White was used for the optional central sub-sector so it's always going to be to the right of the red as you approach from the sea.
     
    Owen likes this.
  18. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    very rarely do documents appear without several errors. In the past, I have been pleased to help out those that want, for one reason or another, to get a story on the war in NW Europe.... In every case, there were several errors. Nothing to worry about as long as no one challenges the version....Its a sort of Journalistic license.

    Recently I gave a interview to the Dorset Life magazine. It was well produced, and featured Major John Charnley. The hip joint genius, and myself at Shaftesbury military hospital..

    Even this local magazine had errors. So just imagine the huge amount of errors when authors quote each others writings.....
     
  19. sparky34

    sparky34 Senior Member

    some time ago my grandaughters husband , who his a sergeant in the logistic corps
    did a NORMANDY tour and he gave me a magazine size book of the tour ..
    in it , it shows the assault beaches and what divisions landed on each ..it also shows
    another landing beach called '' BAND '',, next to SWORD BEACH ..but it do's not show any division to land on it during the assault on D.DAY .
    BRIAN I will post it on to you if i can find an envelope thats big enough ..
     
  20. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Julian Thompson The Royal Marines:


    There was something planned for BAND... Operation FROG deals with one of the batteries, need to confirm which.

    Note 117 from Cdn Report AHQ054:

    [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

    Guys,

    It is really rare that one learns something absolutely brand spanking new about the British and Canadian part in D-Day, but this is a new one on me - BAND; Operations Frog and Deer...

    Whereas Monty has been given lots of deserved praise for his planning in getting the Allies ashore and establsihed on D-Day; increasing the number of and breadth of area covered by the Assault beaches, one criticism of his plan had always been that he didn't leave enough room to the east in which to use British and Candian Armour to its best advantage in grabbing Caen. It has been argued that the line of the Dives, rather than the Orne, should have been the correct target/boundary in the east - and this despite the local flooding.

    Sapper (Brian) suggests in an earlier note on this thread that this area was overlooked by the Germans who were established on the high ground to the east. Well, he was there and I for one won't argue with his first hand knowledge and experience. So, it may well have been 'better' if the Dives had been correct target/boundary for the assault, but the German advantage of high ground, poor beaches and local flooding between the Dives and Orne would probably have made this impractical for a landing and the manouvre of armour.

    Hence why Monty possibly discounted assaulting the land between the Dives and Orne; except to neutralise German strongpoints and protect the important Orne crossings.

    Well done guys, I have really enjoyed reading this thread! :)

    Best,

    Steve.
     

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