6th D Day landing beach and their code names - Band Beach etc.

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by frankkelsall, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The first people on the ground in the 9.15 pm air landing areas, were the Sappers, who went over and removed the stakes in the ground that were there to stop the air landings. Known as Rommel's asparagus.... They removed them to let the air landings land safely. Then went back to the beach, to help out with the mined beach obstacles.

    We pushed on to Hermanville Sur mer. before going over to Pegasus.
    Sapper
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Brian,

    What areas were the '9.15pm Air Landing Areas'?

    I was under the impression the Ox and Bucks Gliders were the first to land by the Canal etc and the Airborne Engineers never arrived to clear the area around Merville Battery as they jumped in the wrong place or got lost...Maybe one of the Airborne experts can confirm?

    Cheers
    A
     
  3. Noel Burgess

    Noel Burgess Senior Member

    Trooper66 wroteBand Beach was named and shown as it contained targets for bombardment

    I am fairly sure that ther were other primary bombardment targets outside the Beaches [or Assault Areas] shown on the map so don't think that explains away the incliusion of Band
    the dot dash lines show the areas contolled by the admirals involved

    That didn't leave much room for the Utah task force

    Finding it a little difficult to read the map image but does the key say Assault Force areas, sectors and beaches shown in Black

    Still not convinced
    Noel
     
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  4. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Ox&Bucks landed at Pegasus bridge at 0015 hrs on 6th June, first elements of 7 para landed albeit under stength at approx 0050(as did the other Para battalions) with 150 men making it to the bridge at 0130, 591 Para sqn R.E landed at Ranville at 0100 to clear poles for airborne landings at 0330 so im also confused about the air landings at 9.15:confused:.......... and the 6th Airlanding Brigade came in on the evening of the 6th later than planned due to the discovery of more than expected anti Glider defences. Just reread the post by Sapper I take it the 9.15pm air landings were the ones I mention above in relation to the 6th Airlanding Brigade?
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    At the instigation of Owen, and with the able assistance of Noel (cheers Noel), I've hugely trimmed that previous thread, and merged it with the current one.
    ~A
     
  6. tropper66

    tropper66 Member

    Trooper66 wrote I am fairly sure that ther were other primary bombardment targets outside the Beaches [or Assault Areas] shown on the map so don't think that explains away the incliusion of Band
    That didn't leave much room for the Utah task force

    Its got nothing to do with the task force , it only shows the area of the shore line to be bombarded by the units under command

    Finding it a little difficult to read the map image but does the key say

    The key gives the type , arcs and ranges of the German Batterys expected to return fire

    Still not convinced
    Noel

    It is From the National Arcive, part of the offical papers held at HQ planning at Fort Southwick in Portsmouth and shows the latest inteligence as at 14 April 1944
     
  7. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Second- notice the demarcation line between Utah & Omaha [the dash, dot, dash line], it sureley would not run in that direction. My thougt is this map was originally drawn before Utah was added

    A landing on the Cotentin was considered by COSSAC early on but it fell out of favour because the peninsula could have been roped off fairly easily. The beach that became UTAH was not in the final COSSAC plan, it was added later by 21 Army Group to gain a foothold on the Cherbourg side of the floods.
     
  8. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The air landings took place at about 9.15 at night.The Rommel's asparagus Stakes had been removed.
    At the time, the SS were trying an armoured drive to split the forces . When they saw this air armada arrive, they turned back, and never got that far again.

    If you stand near Benouville, and look east across the Orne, You will see some rising ground. It was there that they landed.

    In daylight the gliders stood out in the open, and the enemy shelled them every day.

    By the way, the initial assault on Pegasus ..The glider shown in the film later, was not right, it was very close to the bridge itself than shown... I know I have been in the thing.
    Sapper

    PS. I have two battle maps copies carried by the invading forces on D day .With another for D plus one. Right here beside me. old and tatty, but genuine with all the info Morris and Hillman clearly shown.

    Corporal Eddies maps from the Suffolks. Still around and 90. Still got a full head of hair. Though white
     
  9. tropper66

    tropper66 Member

    operation Bellpush Charlie, beach recce map from 31st Jan 1944
     

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  10. tropper66

    tropper66 Member

    somthing went wrong in that post
     

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  11. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Jogged a memory of something I read last week on BBC People's War, an entry under 7 June:

    HMS Prince Albert didn't go on D Day, but was to have made a landing this morning with Royal Marine Commando's, which were to take the heavy batteries near Le Havre. When they got there the Navy had already put them out of action, so they landed the Troops on the same beach as ours.

    I don't know anything else about this intriguing possibility and haven't established which Commando it should have been. Ramsay's report mentions that the Le Havre guns were not a primary target for the naval bombardment as it was intended they should have been put out of action by bombing. He does not mention any proposed amphibious assault.
     
  12. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Curiouser and curiouser...

    The pay of liberation,
    Finally dawned at last.
    Imagine her exaltation,
    As spithead boom she passed.

    In company with the Margaret,
    A smaller L.S.I.
    She was off for something special,
    That no one could deny.

    She anchored in the Bay Sir,
    Amid the other craft.
    She was ready for the fray Sir,
    With guns trained fore and aft.

    Dissapointment was in store Sir,
    Though no one blew the 'Gaff.'
    A force was there before Sir,
    None other than the R.A.F.

    The troops went off next morning,
    She turned for England's shore.
    And though she'd done her share Sir,
    She had wanted to do some more.


    "something special" = Le Havre?

    SS Princess Margaret and HMS Prins Albert were both assigned to "Assault Group J4 - Commando and Ranger Lifts - Both Task Forces", arguably something special.
     
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Julian Thompson The Royal Marines:
    46 RM Commando was to remain afloat on D-Day ready to assault two coastal batteries east of the Orne at Houlgate and Berneville, should these start to threaten the landing beaches... 46 Commando, which had not been required to deal with the batteries at Houlgate and Bennerville, was instead ordered to land on Juno Beach (Canadian) on the morning of D+1 to capture a strongpoint at Petit Enfer.

    There was something planned for BAND... Operation FROG deals with one of the batteries, need to confirm which.

    Note 117 from Cdn Report AHQ054:
    46 R.M. Cdo had been held in Army Reserve “with alternative tasks, the destruction of one or other of two formidable batteries east of the Orne [Merville and Houlgate batteries]. …Owing to the success of the bombardment directed against the batteries, it was cancelled and the Commandos came under command of 4 S.S. Brigade on D plus 1” (Royal Marine Commandos in Normandy, op cit).
     
  14. DannyM

    DannyM Member

  15. Noel Burgess

    Noel Burgess Senior Member

    Back to the map that Tropper66 posted - I still feel that this is a bit dubious because it is missing one important word - BIGOT

    Idler writes
    The beach that became UTAH was not in the final COSSAC plan, it was added later.....
    My point is that the dot-dash line suggests a demarcation line drawn before Utah was added.

    Another point that I have already raised is that Ops Frog and Deer were stil "Live" at D Day then why are ther no individual landing beaches named within Band. And why give a further named assault area for two somewhat independant comando assaults?
    Noel
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Noel,

    Aren't we in agreement? The dot-dash line ties in with the right/western boundary of sector Able on some other maps. It's shown as such on the original base maps then UTAH gets tucked in later.

    The left/eastern boundary of BAND (on a level with Auberville, by the look of it) corresponds with the range limits of the majority of the Le Havre batteries. Some can reach into it, but suggests that the area was considered a reasonably safe option at some stage for some purpose.

    I can only assume that codenames weren't considered necessary for the DEER and FROG beaches as only one unit was involved.

    Tropper's map and a few more are also in Historical Maps of World War II: Europe by Swift and Sharpe. A number of the maps use the same base as Tropper's. None of them are annotated BIGOT, though that may be because they are from a post-D-Day report rather than the planning files.

    Danny, cheers for the clarification. This was the first I'd heard of these operations.
     
  17. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Lay this idea to rest!
    For many years it was claimed that we had it easy on Sword Beach, not true, the following from one of the assault ships log, lays this misinformation to rest, what follows later, is Stan Hough’s record taken from the log of one of the ships that carried the Assault craft.

    Princess Astrid. Bless her! She hit a mine in the channel after the war and sunk!

    The Princess lost 4 out of her 8 Assault landing craft.

    Princess Charlotte lost 7 out of 8.

    MV Victoria lost 5 out of 6.

    Prince Henry lost 5 out of 8.

    Finally Prince David lost all 8.

    On reflection, the loss of 29 Assault craft out of a total of 38 with only 9 saved, hardly bears out the idea of an "Easy landing" But, such is the power of propaganda that these myths are assumed to be true and become fixed as part of the Legend of D Day.
    Sapper
     
  18. tropper66

    tropper66 Member

    I am surprised that no one has started slaging the operation Bellpush Charlie beach recce map yet, and as you can see it was secret once
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Lay this idea to rest!
    For many years it was claimed that we had it easy on Sword Beach, not true, the following from one of the assault ships log, lays this misinformation to rest, what follows later, is Stan Hough’s record taken from the log of one of the ships that carried the Assault craft.

    Princess Astrid. Bless her! She hit a mine in the channel after the war and sunk!

    The Princess lost 4 out of her 8 Assault landing craft.

    Princess Charlotte lost 7 out of 8.

    MV Victoria lost 5 out of 6.

    Prince Henry lost 5 out of 8.

    Finally Prince David lost all 8.

    On reflection, the loss of 29 Assault craft out of a total of 38 with only 9 saved, hardly bears out the idea of an "Easy landing" But, such is the power of propaganda that these myths are assumed to be true and become fixed as part of the Legend of D Day.
    Sapper


    Brian,

    I can't say I have ever seen anyone say the Sword Beach was easy on here. The fact it had the second highest amount of casualties of the five landing beaches on D-Day is evidence enough that it was not easy.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  20. dovermarine

    dovermarine Senior Member

    Hi everyone, I was drawn to this about BAND beach as I have just read about it in 2 separate Normandy landing historys. Overload: The D Day Landing by K. Ford and Steven Zaloga and DDay The First 24 Hours by Will Fowler. I will have to go back to the library and re-read the first one as I believe it had more info. on its first appearance in the DDay plan. I have attcd a scan of a map ,which is for all purposes the same as one shown on here earlier. This is described in Will Fowlers book as the Beaches for bombardment . The large map for landings only shows the 5. I also came across an American Normandy site that states that there were 6 beaches but then only names the 5.delboy
     

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