4130849 Herbert HUDSON, 6th Battalion The Cheshire Regiment

Hi there, I’m new to this, so hope I’ve posted this in the correct place….
My Grandfathers WW2 have been passed down to me as his eldest grandson & I’m keen to find out more about where he served during WW2.
As a boy, I remember some of his stories with much fondness…
Looking through his belongings, I can advise the following:
Name: Herbert Hudson
Army no. 4130849
Rank: W/Sgt
Unit: 11 Platoon, C Company, 6 Battalion, 22nd Cheshire Regiment

I’d be really grateful if anyone can provide more information on my grandfathers/units activities, or where I should start in finding out this information.
Many thanks for your time.
Kind Regards

 

Stephen.

6 CHESHIRES were the Machine Gun Battalion for 56 Infantry Division. They provided the heavy weaponry to the Division's three Infantry Brigades.

The organisational specifics of the role changed throughout the war but for most of the time 6 CHESHIRES provided a Company of 30mm Oerlikon Anti-Aircraft guns, a Company of 4.2" mortars and a Company of Vickers Medium Machine Guns.

If you want to see exactly what 6 CHESHIRES did at one phase of the war, I am guiding a battlefield study to the Garigliano and Anzio on 15-18 May 22 where 56 Infantry Division were very heavily involved and 6 CHESHIRES were very busy. They were involved in the crossing of the mighty Garigliano river on 17-18 Jan 44 before being moved up to Anzio in Feb 44 to prop up a beachhead that was in deep trouble. Here they remained in ghastly conditions until Apr 44 when they were withdrawn to North Africa for rest and rebuild.

C Company supported 169 Infantry Brigade so it is possible to narrow down exactly where he went on the battlefields.

Regards

Frank

 

Hi Stephen,

My grandfather was with the LAD attached to 6 Cheshires from 1940 - 1945. What time period was your grandfather serving with them? I have all the WDs so can assist with your research.

I've attached an extract of a file that shows Sergeants attached on arrival in Italy on 11th July 1944. It shows him as part of First Reinforcements. My grandfather is also on there in the REME Sgts - Sgt. N. Owen.



Frank - I'd have to check but I don't think 6 Cheshires ever operated an AA guns, certainly not in Italy and I'm pretty sure not in N. Africa or Tunisia. When they landed at Salerno they had four Vickers MG companies until April 1944 when, as part of the reorg in the Middle East, A Company became the 4.2-inch mortar company.

Regards,
Gary.

 

Hi Gary, Frank & Owen, thanks so much for your help thus far…
It’s so interesting…. Seeing my grandfathers name in writing is so strange….
I will go through the paperwork again to provide as much information as I can…
Thanks again for your help…
Regards
Steve

 

Hello again Gary, all....
I have done a bit more research & found the following:
My Grandfather enlisted on 15/03/1940.
He seems to have served through to the end of the war. I've found a NAAFI menu dated 27/12/45 for the Cheshire Reg.
Certificate of transfer to army reserves dated 09/06/1946.
Photos of my Grandfather & fellow serviceman in Cairo dated 09/08/1942; Vatican City (undated) & Cortina D'Ampezzo (also undated, but he is skiing).
I've just noticed your emblem of the black cat on the red background. I recall seeing those in the mementos also...
Any further information would be gratefully received.
ps, I'm not up on the acronyms.... what does LAD & WDs mean???
Regards
Steve

 

Others here recommend this site for abbreviations: Second World War Abbreviations and Acronyms - Researching WW2

LAD being Light Aid Detachment (mechanics IIRC)

WD being War Department (ex-War Office, now MoD) or Westminster Dragoons or War Diaries.

 

Gary,

I'm not sure I've seen any more information about AA guns being used by 6 Cheshires specifically but in the war diary of 56 Division HQ for August 1943 there are a couple of mentions of 20 mm Oerlikons:

5 August 1943
2200 [TOR] 10 Corps O 210 – 20 mm Oerlikon Guns now being issued to inf have considerable proportion non self destroying shell. Enquiries being made number of proper fuzes available North Africa meanwhile GRAZE fuzes should only be fired over enemy lines.

6 August 1943
1115 [TOO] 56 Div ACV1 – To G Ops 10 Corps. Asked for permission to do practice firing of 20 mm Oerlikons using GRAZE fuses. G ops state OK if all firing with a/m fuses directed out to sea.

I'll keep an eye out for any further mention that indicates who they were being issued to and whether they were taken across into Italy.

Regards

Tom

 

The Divisional Support Battalions had many iterations during the war. Each battalion did have Oerlikon AA Guns at some points in the war but not always - especially after the air threat completely disappeared. They then focussed on providing Vickers MMG and 4.2” mortar support.

Regards

Frank

 

I'm aware the MG/Support battalions had widely varying War Establishments but 6 Cheshire never had 20mm Oerlikons.

These are the War Establishments for the MG/Support Battalions in Italy (I think from early 1944). I do have them for other dates somewhere. They mostly finally converge on WE II/240/1 at various times - one 4.2in mortar company and 3 Vickers MG companies. As mentioned previously 6 Cheshire do this in April 1944.

.

 

Hi Tom,

That is interesting as 168 Brigade had a brigade support company but as you know they had been detached to 50th Division for Sicily and weren't with 56 Div in August 1943 (returned in Oct 43).

They did have 20mm Oerlikons and Bredas until the end of Jan 44 and remained in being as a unit until 56 Div returned to the Middle East.



Regards,
Gary.

 

I think 46 Division brigades also had the brigade support company thing going on at Salerno. Was that formed from elements of the brigade's infantry battalions rather than from the MG Battalion then? That would explain ref to 20 mm being "issued to infantry". I'll look back at 167 Inf Bde HQ diary and see if I can see them dissolving the support company construct.

Regards

Tom

 

138 and 139 Brigade definitely had support companies, not sure about 128 Brigade. They did have 20mm Oerlikons. Perhaps 2 NF did as well.

6 Cheshire's joined 56 Division from 44 Division when that was division was disbanded. Looking at 6 Cheshires WDs from 1942 it appears they were always a 4 MMG company organisation.

 

Every Infantry Brigade in an Infantry Division had a Support Company provided by the Divisional MG Battalion. The concept of beefing up Infantry Brigades with heavier support weapon Companies was conceived in the mid-30s and a number of Infantry Regiments were converted from conventional line infantry to undertake this role.

I cannot recall all the Regiments but I know that it included the Manchester Regiment, the Middlesex Regiment, the Cheshire Regiment, the Northumberland Fusiliers and the Kensington Regiment. Richard Fisher will be able to name them all.

Regards

Frank

 

Frank,

The support companies I am referring to are separate Brigade Support Company organisations - they have their own official WE and personnel. They are not attachments from the support/MG battalions.

They are not present in all Brigades/Divisions - the only ones left in Italy in early 1944 are those with 168 Brigade, 13, 15 and 17 Brigades from 5 Div. The latter were disbanded in June 1944 when the division left Italy. 138 and 139 Infantry Brigades definitely has support companies when they landed at Salerno (they are on the landing tables) but they had disappeared by the end of the year.

Regards,
Gary.

 

Morning all, is it possible to advise which brigades C company of the 6th Battalion Cheshire regiment supported, with both the 44th & 56th Divisions, together with the relevant dates.
Just trying to understand which actions my Grandfather may have took part in.
Other family members are now interested in this..
Many thanks & kind regards
Steve

 

Just a minor update on the topics raised in this thread.

I was copying 2 Northumberland Fusiliers war diaries yesterday and it appears that only No. 1 and No. 3 Group of the battalion accompanied 46 Division to Salerno (attached to 128 Infantry Brigade which as noted didn't have a Brigade Support Company). The Battalion HQ and No. 2 Group remained in North Africa until late November before moving to Italy.

 

David Stott Hi Stephen, My dad Walter Stott was in the 11 platoon during WW2 . I have quite a lot of info about the 6th. Bat. during ww2 which I gleaned from a book. THE HISTORY OF THE CHESHIRE REGIMENT IN WW2. by Colonel Crookenden which I borrowed from a library.
Regards Dave Stott

 

Dear Stephen, I tried to reply to you earlier but I probably got it wrong. However I have just realised there is a Reply logo at the bottom of your post so I will try again. I have a picture of 11 platoon C Company taken on leave in Egypt but I can't see the name Hudson on it.
My father was in the Cheshires from 1939 to 46. I assume he was with 11 platoon all through the war. I got loads of info from a book called
The History of the Cheshire Regiment in WW2 by Colonel Arthur Crookenden.
The main library in Stockport Greater Manchester.
And The war Records Office in Kentigern House Glasgow. There is a fee for this but it is many years ago since I applied so as to the present fee, I don't know.
Regards David Stott