6 Hiller Brothers in Royal Navy during WW2

Discussion in 'War at Sea' started by ww2ni, Oct 24, 2015.

  1. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Folks,
    I am trying to learn more about the 6 Hiller brothers who all volunteered to serve in the Royal Navy during WW2.
    I believe they were from Hyndfort Street, Belfast.

    Artie (Benjamin Arthur) KIA 2nd May 1942 on HMS Edinburgh
    George - Believe he settled in Plymouth area after WW2. No other details
    Joe - No other details
    John - No other details
    Len. - Served on HMS Voltaire, was POW and survived war.
    Sammy - Served mostly on HMS Victorious and survived the war.

    Any other details would be very much appreciated.

    Andy
     
  2. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Andy,
    There is a George Spencer Hiller born 12/3/1923 died Plymouth 1 Q 1999.
    He married Mona S Adams 4 Q 1946 Plymouth
     
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    L A Hiller in the UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: L A Hiller
    Rank: Ordinary Signalman
    Army Number: P/UDX999
    Regiment: Naval Forces : Officers & Ratings
    POW Number: 103235
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: 344
    Camp Location: Lamsdorf (Oberschkesein), Poland
    Section: Naval Forces : Officers & Ratings

    I assume this to be one of them
    TD
     
    Guy Hudson likes this.
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Benjamin Arthur

    Name: Benjamin Arthur Hiller
    Age: 23
    Birth Date: abt 1919
    Death Date: 2 May 1942
    Cemetery: Naval Memorials In The United Kingdom Plymouth Part V
    Burial Country: England
    Father: Leonard Hiller
    Mother: Margaret E Hiller
    Regimental Number: D/SSX 27599
    Region or Memorial: Memorial Register

    40465_291222-00008.jpg

    TD

    edited to add:
    Birth Info:
    Benjamin Arthur Hiller in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958

    Name: Benjamin Arthur Hiller
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
    Registration district: Belfast
    Volume: 1
    Page: 329
    FHL Film Number: 101078
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Basic Info on all Hiller births in Belfast 1905 - 1925

    Theodora Hiller
    Apr-May-Jun 1908 Belfast

    Robert Hiller
    Apr-May-Jun 1910 Belfast

    Joseph Hiller
    Apr-May-Jun 1912 Belfast

    Leonard Arden Hiller
    Oct-Nov-Dec 1914 Belfast

    Benjamin Arthur Hiller
    Jan-Feb-Mar 1919 Belfast

    Samuel Hiller
    Apr-May-Jun 1921 Belfast

    TD

    edited to add:
    This may take some working out -
    George appears on your list but not in the births
    John appears on your list but not in the births
    Robert appears NOT on your list but in the births

    There is also the Leonard Arden (b 1914) which is exactly the same name as his father :(
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    1911 census Northern Ireland

    Census Years1911DownVictoria (part of)Church Street EastResidents of a house
    Residents of a house 81 in Church Street East (Victoria (part of), Down)

    Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion
    Hiller Leonard 30 Male Head of Family Church of England
    Hiller Margaret 27 Female Wife Church of England
    Hiller Theodora 2 Female Daughter Church of England


    From a family tree for Theodora (only, no siblings shown):

    Parents are:


    Leonard Arden Hiller
    Birth 1880 in Tamworth, Staffordshire, England
    Death 10 Feb 1949 in Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland



    Margaret Elizabeth Smith
    Birth 1884 in Barrow in Furnace, England
    Death 06 Sept 1970 in Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland


    TD

    edited to add:
    Further info from a Family Tree on the parents:

    Leonard Arden Hiller

    Birth: 1880 - Staffordshire, England
    Death: 10 Feb 1949 - Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland
    Marriage: 11 Jul 1903 - Belfast, Antrim, Ireland (Northern Ireland)
    Spouse: Margaret Elizabeth Smith
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Hi Andy

    Have been scratching my head around this one for a while. What is the source of info that says these were brothers??

    TD
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    The Leonard Arden Hiller (Senior) seems to have a Naval connection via WW1


    Name: Leonard Hiller
    Medal or Award: Victory Medal, British War Medal
    Service Year: 1914-1920
    Service Location: Europe
    Campaign or Service: World War I
    Service number: 699396


    31793_221346-00195.jpg

    Still finding it difficult to tie all those 'brothers' mentioned to the correct parents and prove they are all from the same family.

    TD
     
  9. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Got the names from the Royal Naval Association in Belfast.
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Do they have any further information, service numbers or the like??


    It seems that so far we can tie in Benjamin, as he has his parents details.

    Theodora seems to be the oldest of them but is obviously their sister.

    Leonard (b 1914 and probably the POW) may be connected as he could have been named after his father.

    Samuel (b1921), the only other reference I can find is that in 1953 there is a Samuel Hiller returning from Adelaide, noted as 32 years old, and a Carpenter, home address 25 Bangor Road, Newtonards, Co Down, NI

    That leaves, as such, details for:
    George
    Robert
    Joseph
    John
    If any or all are part of the same family, sounds as if you may need to obtain some actual birth certificates to confirm the parents names to ensure they all or some came from the same family.

    TD

    edited to add:
    From post #5 - I think that shows the Hiller family, but that only shows 5 sons:
    Robert - 1910
    Joseph - 1912
    Leonard - 1914
    Benjamin - 1919
    Samuel - 1921
    So where the 6th son happens to be is a bit of a mystery
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    We may be able to delete Robert from the list

    Robert Hiller in the Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958
    Name: Robert Hiller
    Estimated birth year: abt 1911
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1911
    Death Age: 0
    Registration district: Belfast
    Volume: 1
    Page: 286
    FHL Film Number: 0101605

    TD
     
  12. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Please see this picture.
    I was sent it by the Royal Naval Association and have been trying to find more details since.

    I know the KIA date is wrong.

    Andy
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Hi Andy

    I cannot see the picture, did it attach correctly??

    TD
     
  14. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Picture attached now.

    Andy
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Hi Andy

    Thanks for the photo. I have to say that something between the photo and the birth records available doesn't seem to ring true. As I mentioned earlier one way to try and tie down some hard facts would be to obtain copies (or at least see the originals) of their birth certificates which should provide a Mothers name (Margaret) and hopefully a Fathers name (Leonard) to ascertain if they do all come from the same parents.

    So far from records I can only find the possibility of Artie (b 1919), Joe (b 1912), Len (b 1914) and Sammy (b 1921) being related. As yet I cannot find any record of George or John Hiller being born in NI, they may have been born elsewhere of course, but where?

    TD

    minor edits
     
  16. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    TD, any chance the father may have been married twice?
     
  17. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Andy, it might be worth finding out where to get the 1939 I.D. Register details from. I know the approach is different for their records. Info on their register is collated by street address I believe, where as in Scotland and the in English/Welsh records they are searchable by name instead.

    Where you apply and how much it costs I've no idea and as you have at least one address to check it might be worth a try. The only downside is they might not be in it, if they were already enlisted when the survey took place in '39, they wouldn't show up on it.
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    Andy

    Re death of Benjamin Hiller:

    http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1942-05MAY.htm

    2 May 1942
    Edinburgh (right - NavyPhotos), ship loss
    HILLER, Benjamin A, Able Seaman, D/SSX 27599, MPK

    TD

    edited to add:
    Link to ship - http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-06CL-Edinburgh.htm

    Link to U boat attack - http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1579.html

    Ships site - http://www.hmsedinburgh.co.uk/crew.php
    This site has a statement:
    Crew members with the icon next to their name have contact email addresses from the Relative who has sent their information in.If you would like to request information about this crew member click on the email icon to contact them through the website. Due to the risks of spam the contacts email address WILL NOT be given out but your email - if appropriate - will be forwarded on to them.

    Andy - Benjamin Hillers name has this icon next to his name so I presume someone from the family has provided further information. You can possibly contact them via the site.
     
  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    We know that Leonard (Snr) married Margaret in 1903, and that their first (?) child was:

    Theodora Hiller
    Apr-May-Jun 1908 Belfast

    We also know from Naval records and death info on Benjamin (b 1919) that he has the same parents as Theodora i.e.

    Name: Benjamin Arthur Hiller
    Age: 23
    Birth Date: abt 1919
    Death Date: 2 May 1942
    Cemetery: Naval Memorials In The United Kingdom Plymouth Part V
    Burial Country: England
    Father: Leonard Hiller
    Mother: Margaret E Hiller

    So I think it is safe to assume that Leonard (Snr) (d 1949) and Margaret (d 1970) were still as husband & wife until at least 1919/1920. As to the facts that the others were all part of the same family is the difficulty, in that Mothers maiden names were not required to be added to birth certs until after 1916, and even then that only applied I think to England & Wales, if the info was documented at all.

    The only real way to know what constituted the Hiller family i.e. numbers of sons and daughters will be a slog of checking original birth certificates I'm afraid.

    Assuming that Robert b 1910 and died 1911 (prior to the census)was a part of the family, the parents, if the story is true of 6 sons in the Navy, had a minimum of 1 daughter and 7 sons between 1903 and 1921, not impossible.

    TD
     
  20. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Thanks guys.

    Andy.
     

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