5th RTR Arm of Service marking

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by p.hewart, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. p.hewart

    p.hewart Member

    Can anyone tell me what the correct Arm of Service markings would be on a Sherman tank of the 5th Royal Tank Regiment engaged in the Desert Campaign of 1940 - 43.
     
  2. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    I was going to say that you would have to be more specific because 5 RTR moved between different units during that time period, but since you mentioned a Sherman tank you actually have a time period of 1942-43. If we assume after it joined 22nd Armoured Brigade, which according to wikipedia was September 17, 1942, then we can get very specific :)

    I have a small book by Dennis Oliver about Sherman tanks in the desert war, and can take a look at it tonight.
     
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  3. p.hewart

    p.hewart Member

    Thanks, that would be great if you could check for me. Im making a model of a sherman and want to have the correct markings on for the period around el Alamein.
     
  4. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    I totally understand! Sorry I forgot to check last night. I will make a note to check tonight.
     
  5. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    It's only one source (the Nafziger Alamein order of battle) but it confirms the hunch that 5 RTks didn't have Shermans at that point.
    Screenshot_20190405-190159.png
     
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  6. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

  7. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    While doing an online search on this, not that I found information that they had Shermans at El Alamein, but I found an OOB article on JSTOR from 2015 and remembered I have an account giving free access. It's limited to 6 articles/month.

    That article has 5RTR with 24 Grants and 18 Crusaders (not Honeys)

    ORDERS OF BATTLE OF BRITISH TANK FORCES, AND TANK TYPES AT KEY DATES IN THE WESTERN DESERT, 1940-42 on JSTOR

    I think that Dennis Oliver's book will record if 5RTR got Shermans after El Alamein...
     
  8. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    As idler has pointed out, 5RTR had no Shermans at El Alamein. :(

    According to The New Breed:

    On 17 November much of the brigade including 5RTR handed over their tanks and returned to Egypt. Instructors from 2nd Armoured Brigade arrived Nov 29 to drill the brigade on Shermans which began to arrive in early December. They rejoined 7th Armoured Division in mid February.

    By this time the brigade had begun using a formation badge of "a red stag's head on a white square combed with the AoS sign." although an illustration of the sign does not really put the stag's head in a square, more a rectangle a bit wider than high.

    5RTR was the middle regiment in the brigade so I think its AoS number would have been 86. As for colour, I am not sure how senior the brigade was in 7th Armoured :(

    For more information I highly recommend registering at www.missing-lynx.com. There are lots of highly informed armour modellers there!
     
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  9. p.hewart

    p.hewart Member

    Thank you so much for the info. I have looked at the information that I have and you’re totally correct. The tank my father was driving in 1942 was not a Sherman but a Grant tank. The tank I’m seeking info on was’nt actually being driven until March 1943 near Gabes Gap.
    Sorry for the confusion.
     
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  10. p.hewart

    p.hewart Member

    Thanks for those details. Would the AoS of 86 and the stags head markings have been used in March of 1943, as that’s the date I have for this particular Sherman.
     
  11. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    I'm pretty confident that that is true, yes.
     
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  12. p.hewart

    p.hewart Member

    Thanks again
     

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