56th Reconnaissance Corps

dear tony,
thanks for the info , as for the injury in 7/44 ive also looked at the diaries and it must have been on either the 1st or 2nd . the diary pages dont mention c sqn on the 1st but they are mentioned several times in the 2nd . it says they are to be used as a mobile unit supported by 2 troops of tanks . they are also mentioned in tuoro sul trasimeno and take one pow from 90pg div they are also mentioned patrolling borghetto and ferretto and end up in the station area . but no mention of casualties on either day . ive looked again at the injury in 8/45 and do you think it could be "opinion of brigade commander". i think that the football match could be the answer as dad said something about being seated next to the tailgate . As for youre dads bowling prowess i think we could have done with his like in australia this winter .
cheers
dave

 

hi all ,
once again im after help with some info please . im looking into dads war records re the adm to 11 fa on 4/7/44 . looking at the diaries it says 4 o/r wounded 1/7/44 4 o/r wounded 2/7/44 1 o/r killed 2 offs wounded 5 offs wounded 3/7/44 . question one is why are there 2 entries of offs wounded on 3/7/44 could this be an error and one of the 2 entries that day should have been o/r's . question two is why do you think there is a gap between the entries 1-2-3/7/44 and my dad being admitted to 11 fa 4/7/44. question three on the 3/7/44 it says 1 o/r killed but according to the roll of honour tpr Stanley Irwin Kemp 4468573 B sqn died on 2/7/44 . finally question four in dads war record form w3149 (report of medical examination class b release) it only mentions his injury to his right arm he got in austria it doesnt mention any other wounds this is also the same for page 2 of army form b200d (territorial army record of service paper). any help with the above would be greatly appreciated.
cheers
dave

 

Dave, unfortunately, I think that it can be difficult to get an exact interpretation of service records and war diaries; it would be no surprise to me if admin took second place to operational needs so, perhaps we should expect errors. For what it is worth here are my thoughts (and I am quite happy to be corrected by any of the veterans, or others, on this site)

Presumably soldiers went to hospital for many reasons, not always as a result of battle. Regimental Order 235 dated 7 June 44 on P2190046 states “The area in which the Regiment is at present harboured in highly malarious ….”

Also Administration Order dated 23 July 44 on P2190126 mentions that malaria medication is to be taken daily by all ranks. The same order also highlights the danger of unwashed vegetables and ‘other’ diseases as well as the danger from heat stroke.

Recce troops, by their very nature, may be operating far in advance of some of the support units. P2190024 indicates that 11 men were injured on 29 June and the citation for Lt C Ridley and Sgt Fisher on P2190220 mentions a wounded armoured car commander on 30 June.

Is it possible that some of these men didn’t get to hospital until early July?

As far as Stanley Kemp is concerned perhaps he was injured on a previous date but died 2nd, Evan David Jones, also of 56 Recce, apparently died on 5 July but the situation report for that day, P2190115, has a nil casualty report. Not all casualties would have been killed instantly, in many cases it must have been some days or even weeks after the action took place.

I fear much will remain a mystery.

 

hi tony,
youre probably right it could be a number of factors either not getting seen to days after injury or perhaps malaria or even admin error . i think im expecting it to be too exact .
dave

 

hi all,
im currently reading "eighth army in italy 1943-45 the long hard slog" by richard doherty , in the section about the battle of termoli the author mentions of several historians especially some who write about light forces (commandos,marines,sas,sbs etc) denegrating the 56th recce as being green and abandoning their anti tank guns and the opposition being the 26th (it was 16th) panzer div and the river obstacle being the bifurno . the author points out that the 56th had already fought in tunisia and sicily and that it was b sqn and rhq only involved in the battle and the anti tank guns were with hq sqn on the other side of the bifurno and he mentions the bravery of tpr ives and several other recce men . i just wondered if anyone knew of these said books or their authors and wether they had been taken to task for their lousy research .
cheers
dave

 

Dave,

I've sent a short PM - I haven't quite re-checked through the full thread whether this is a replication of a previous post but here's Kendal Chavasse's second DSO citation awarded for his actions at Termoli.

best

 

Kendal Chavasse DSO & Bar is to be found at Post 131

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/12237-56th-reconnaissance-corps/page-5#entry272493


Cheers
Paul

 

Dave,

I believe that this book, published in 1949, refers to 56 Recce as "being green" amongst other misstatements...which seems to have set a trend for future commentary.

edited and updated below

best

 

I've now been told that the "source" for any adverse comments about 56 Recce might actually have been Durnford Slater's book 'Commando' published in the early 1950s. Perhaps someone has a copy to check?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/COMMANDO-Brigadier-John-Durnford-Slater/dp/B001JT4KHK/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1399834260&sr=1-3

Best

 

My grandfather gained his MM at Termoli (I believe I uploaded it on here somewhere) when as Chavasse's driver, the CO asked him if he would go back and pick up the wounded. The citation stated that my grandfather went back under heavy fire a number of times. I asked him how mamy times? and he replied, I don't remember, but it was when I was young and stupid!

I also remember him say about how he was driving the jeep (not sure at this time or at another point in the war), stopped, stood up and looked around and saw a Panzer the other side of a hedge, where he then quickly sat down and drove off very fast!

And in fact, the 'greeness' wasn't something that the contemporaries (of note) probably thought. I believe that Chavasse received a letter of thanks from Mountbatten for the help they provided his commandos at Termoli!

 

Wishis,

Thanks and
"And in fact, the 'greeness' wasn't something that the contemporaries (of note) probably thought." as it wasn't actually true.

best

 

The Commune of Cortona is intending to hold a commemoration of the 70th anniversary of its liberation on July 5th.

As a Naval "gentleman" resident in the area it fell to me, over the weekend (typically Italian last minute!), to research the details of who arrived in town on 3 July 1944.

Extensive use of Google reveals A Sqn, 56th Recce Regt, 78th Division, XIII Corps Eighth Army and your war diaries prove it!

What I am wondering is whether there are any survivors of that day out there? If so how do I contact them or their families?

Hoping you might be able to help a stranded sailor

Andrew Underwood

 

Andrew

Wouldn't worry about survivors turning up as I believe some of them were in Cassino just last week - and when they

recover - they will be in touch with you…

Cheers

 

Andrew welcome to the forum

Cheers
Paul

 

Tom

Thanks for the heads up!

Can you keep me posted?

Andrew

 

Andrew.

Send a PM to 4jonboy. She, Lesley, was in Cassino last week and I suspect that she may have what you are looking for. Her father was 56 Recce.

Regards

FdeP

 

Hello and welcome to the forum Andrew

Lesley

 

Lesley

Hi from the mountains above Cortona!

As I indicated above the Comune are having a commemoration. There was a cange of Mayor after the elections on thje 25th and the Ddate now appears to be am Sunday 6 July. They are keen to issue a formal invitation and need a point of contact.

If that's you, could I have a formal email and a "terrestrial" address? The former to get it through quickly the latter for form's sake!

I gather from the Embassy that there is a distinct possibility of a presence from the Defence team!!

Great Forum - even a Blue job can see what a proud and effective outfit the 56th were!

Andrew

 

Andrew, PM (private message sent)

Lesley

 

Frank Barratt, who I met last week, managed to put some more names to the faces on this photo. (Originally posted by Tony56)

Caiazzo, May 1944