542 E & M Company Royal Engineers

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Ellen Greaves, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Ellen Greaves

    Ellen Greaves The Researcher

    Hi, I am doing research for a friend, His Great Uncle was Leslie WIgnall, Staff Sgt in 542 E&M Coy of the Royal Engineers Reg No: 14910343, during the Palestine conflict. He was killed on 16/17 June 1946 along with his 19 yr old driver. Records from Palestine Events 1946 state they were "lynched by the Arabs" possibly in Gaza.
    I have traced his grave to the war cemetery at Ramleh. What I am trying to find out now is, did he serve elsewhere during WW2. I have read that the RE's did serve in Italy, and as Leslie was age 36 and a staff sergeant at the time of his death, I can only assume he did serve elsewhere in WW2.
    I am aware of the issues surrounding WW2 service records, it was fairly easy to obtain my own father's service record because I was able to provide proof of his marriage & death. But, as Leslie Wignall is a distant relative of my friend, he has no documents to request a possible service record and have been told they are unable to help. Therefore I am looking for another way to find out where else Leslie served.
    I have not been able to find a military record anywhere for him, not even in the WW2 Medals list. Can anyone out there please help. Greatly appreciate any assistance. many thanks EPG
     
  2. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Hi ellen, welcome to the forum. Here's the link to get Leslie's military record Get a copy of military service records - GOV.UK

    Get this first and don't waste your money on the likes of Forces War records etc. The service record is what you need for the accurate details. Cheers - Maria
     
  3. Ellen Greaves

    Ellen Greaves The Researcher

    Thanks Maria, will give it a go. I did this with my dad's record 2 years ago, but I had to provide his marriage and death cert, (cost me £30), so not sure if the same will apply for Leslie's, but will pursue it. I will post what happens in case anyone else needs the info.
    many thanks Ellen
     
  4. Ellen Greaves

    Ellen Greaves The Researcher

    Just had a quick look on Gov.uk, it still costs £30, for a service record. I will speak to my friend and see what he wants to do. thanks Ellen
     
  5. Ellen Greaves

    Ellen Greaves The Researcher

    Hello members, I posted the above about 542 E & M Company Royal Engineers back in February. Just wondering if there is anyone new out there that has any further info about this unit? Any little piece of info will be appreciated. many thanks EPG
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Ellen

    Without his service records then its all guesswork, his records will tell you who with and where he served during all his time in the military. Its the only place to start researching anyones military record.

    TD
     
  7. Ellen Greaves

    Ellen Greaves The Researcher

    Yes, I know about service records, I got them for my parents years ago. I have explained all this to my friend who is related to Leslie Wignall, but so far they haven't requested them. I have informed them it only costs £30. I was hoping there was someone who perhaps has a bit more info on his unit. What they did out there etc, because he was killed under such awful circumstances, I found one paragraph about how he died and that they believe it was in Gaza. but I can't find much more than that. I know there are books etc, which I have referred a few to my friend. Still, I have found little on the internet to give me more background on this unit in Palestine at that time. I was lucky getting the War Diary for my grandfather, who was killed at Passchendaele because his service record is classed as a "burnt record" after the records office was hit by an incendiary in WWII, otherwise I would have had little to go on about the morning he died. As for Leslie Wignall, I was just putting some feelers out to see if anymore info had come in. I appreciate your reply. Ellen.
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949
    Name: L Wignall
    Service Date: 1945-1948
    Service Place: Palestine
    Campaign or Service: Palestine
    Regiment or Unit Name: Royal Engineers
    Regimental Number: 14910343
    31794_221604-00213.jpg

    TD
     
  9. Ellen Greaves

    Ellen Greaves The Researcher

    HI TD, thanks for this. I got a copy of this a few months ago. I appreciate you sending me it though.

    The main thing I wanted to trace is, where was he prior to Palestine and during WWII, was he involved in any other conflicts, my friend is away on holiday at the moment, but when he gets back I will try and persuade him to request Leslie's service record. I know that will answer a few more mysteries. I have been doing family research for quite a few years now. I am the one that becomes more curious about individuals, like Leslie, but the families don't always share my enthusiasm, a downside of doing this for a hobby. At least I get my curiosity fix by trying to unfold the layers.

    My biggest regret is not finding my grandfathers service record, being part of the burnt records I will never get to know, and it would have been very interesting as my father was only five when his father was killed, he had 4 younger siblings. He searched for many years but never got to know much, so I am doing it for him, although my dad is also long gone and I still want to keep searching. One fact I did establish that my father never knew, was his father who was killed at Passchendaele, outside Ypres, when my dad was in France, he landed on a Normandy beach, marched to Arromanche, then went on to the Battle of Caen, they pushed up into Belgium spending a long period outside Ghent, he never knew how close he had followed in his father's foot steps, finally ending up outside Antwerp. My mum was a veteran too, she was part of the ATS, part of the Soutern Command in the Monstrous 93 rd All women's Searchlight regiment, she was based at Holts Mere End, down the road a wee bit from Bovingdon Airfield. Solving these military mysteries is important to me.

    Again thanks for sending the info on Leslie. I did find a record of his memorial, with info where he is buried in Ramelah, maybe I can talk my friend into going to visit Leslie's grave, he does a lot of travel and I don't believe any of his family have ever been aware of Leslie. It would make a nice fitting tribute for Leslie.
    regards Ellen
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Ellen

    As you know the mans service records are the skeleton onto which all information hangs, without it you have a puddle. If he died or was captured then existing records may provide some info, but in this case there is only one route to take, or at least your friend needs to take.

    I too am still trying to piece together info re my great uncle from WW1, fortunately at least Ancestry now has some of the war diaries, but only for NW Europe (again), they do not extend them to the Italy campaign, which annoys me as it is all part & parcel of the same war.

    Its the same for POW's in WW2 - only NW Europe

    Good luck for when your friend returns from holidays

    TD
     
  11. Andy Oultram

    Andy Oultram New Member

    Hi Ellen

    My late father was a sapper Cpl., he was called up in 1944 at the age of 18, his first posting was to Palestinian in 1945 by ferry from Dover a train through France and troop ship from Toulon with 344 E & M Independent Company Royal Engineers this became 542 E & M Independent Company RE (1946?) and dad served in Palestinian from 1945-48, during our discussions just before he died he told me about the incident you are asking about and another one when someone was shot and killed after he dropped his sten gun when on guard duty. It’s just a great pity you were not able to speak with him as he only passed away 3 years ago last month and had an encyclopaedic memory right until the end. He also had a lifelong friend and work colleague, who he first met in the Negev desert called Dennis Harker who was a Sgt in 542, but unfortunately he passed away two years before my dad, Dennis was with 344/542 for longer serving in Italy ( Naples/ Rome?) in 1944 before my dad joined the unit, they served together until they were finally demobbed in 1948 apparently their ballot came up, but no orders came through so after a week or two of waiting they got a lift to the port, Hafia I think and talked their way onto a troopship home. My father took lots of pictures which he developed under his blanket mostly in tents, but later in wooden huts and we still have the album from his time in Palestinian. He also ate cheese and jam sandwiches for lunch throughout his life which were a through back to his time on army rations in Palestinian.
    One of his greatest joys in his final years was attending the Palestinian veterans association events at Eden camp in Yorkshire, he wanted to make the effort even in his final year to remember those who did not come home.
    We have his service record with the camps he was stationed at along with the dates which mirrors 542’s location during the conflict, some of which still exist today in Gaza if you look on Google maps. Dad said as they were an independent company they were responsible for looking after themselves most of the time. They worked on power supplies, transformers and overhead cables which were regularly attacked and need replacing, they providing their own armed guard for this. They were also responsible for their own security at the camps they lived in. One night the camp was raided by Jewish terrorist trying to steal weapons, but the armourer kept them at bay by locking himself in the armoury and firing until reinforcements arrived. He said he would spend nights on guard duty followed by days up telegraph poles running or jointing cables in the sun, but getting sun burn was a court-martial offence he would always say. He told me about being detailed to escort a prisoner to a detention camp and I asked him what happened if he had escaped his reply was I would have had to serve the remainder of his sentence.
    He spent 3 months on detachment in Cyprus installing underground cables at the new spy base that was being built near Famagusta. This was clearly a fantastic time in his life and he would tell us the story of how he and another sapper went for two weeks and ended up stayed for 3 months, all because the army service Corps who had to dig the trench for the cable quickly found it was solid rock so it took them 3 months to complete it.
    In his photo album are pictures taken of the locals both Arabs and Jews, he said they bought dates from one and grapes from the other. They visited the biblical sites and had rest and recreation in camps by the Mediterranean Sea.
    Before being called up for the army dad was an apprentice electrician, he had passed his eleven plus, but his father wouldn’t let him go to the grammar school because he wouldn’t have any friends so this resulted in him starting full time work at the age of 13 because his secondary school was shut due to a shortage of teachers the grammar school stayed open, dad always said when asked they all got called up for war work. I think this tough start in life made him very determined from this young age, which is what made him a natural fit in the Royal Engineers, looking back I also think he always regretted leaving army life, although he did get called up again, but only for two weeks in 1951 when he lived in a tent again in rainy Ripon this time.
    In 1953 he went back to the Middle East this time on an aeroplane to Aden and helped build the new oil refinery for the next 2 years, which I think was driven by his experience in 542
    He was a proud sapper to the end and proud of his service in Palestinian, but I think he was never comfortable with how we left it at the end of the mandate.

    Please contact me if I can be of any further help.

    Andy
     
  12. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

  13. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    For reference, the unit's War Diaries held at TNA Kew

    Royal Engineers: Companies: 542 Electrical and Mechanical Company (RE) | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 169/23327
    Description: Royal Engineers: Companies: 542 Electrical and Mechanical Company (RE)
    Date: 1946 Jan-1946 June



    Royal Engineers: 542 Electrical and Mechanical Company (RE) | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 169/20230
    Description: Royal Engineers: 542 Electrical and Mechanical Company (RE)
    Date: 1945 Jan.- Dec.

    Royal Engineers: 542 Electrical and Mechanical Company (RE EM Coy) | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 169/10703
    Description: Royal Engineers: 542 Electrical and Mechanical Company (RE EM Coy)
    Date: 1943 July- Dec.
     

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