53rd Reconnaissance Regiment

Discussion in 'Recce' started by dave3164, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Welcome Trpr Hughes, good to find others have an interest in 53 Recce I have only been here a short time myself and only started researching last October but I have found out some much already!!

    I have a copy of the transcribed war diary which I have sent via disk to another member on here give me a shout if you want a copy.

    Time to look at your photos!!!!!!
     
  2. Trpr Hughes

    Trpr Hughes Member

    Cheers chap,

    I am indeed interested in the transcribed war diary.
    Still hunting down Welsh Spearhead, a frankly fruitless search!

    There's still a few more photos knocking about, but I guess most of the interesting ones are up there.
     
  3. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    mmmmm Welsh Spearhead I have lost count on the number of booksellers and dealers I have spoken to, I have just missed out on it twice now.

    PM your address and I will get a copy in the post to you tomorrow, it is good for regimental locations, activites during training etc and a few OR's are mentioned. There are some excellent photos there escpecially like the ones taken in the Ardennes
     
  4. Trpr Hughes

    Trpr Hughes Member

    Cheers will send details,

    yep, the Ardennes unofficial uniform, chic.
     
  5. ellioda0

    ellioda0 Junior Member

    Hi Just joined so still finding my way around...

    My Uncle was in the 53rd...

    Trooper ARTHUR FREDERICK BATES
    14203366.
    Who died age 21 on 18 August 1944

    I note from Mitch's roll of honour that 8 other members of the 53rd died on the 18th, I'd like to know where they were at that time...

    Obviously I'm interested to know more about him...
    I've read some of the books mentioned...

    I'm away from home till April, when I get back I will scan and upload a picture of him... I also have all his letters home...so this may be useful...

    Cheers
    Dave
     
  6. Trpr Hughes

    Trpr Hughes Member

    Hello ellioda0.

    Here's a picture of the 53rd Concert band.
    Why yes, on pigskins it's Trooper Hughes!

    The chap 2nd left from the handsome drummer is Cpl Iuan Morgan, vocals.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Loopyliz66

    Loopyliz66 Junior Member

    Hi
    I am very excited to have found this thread my father was in this regiment he was SQMS C.G. Jones from Hereford sadly he passsed away in November 2008. We have quite a few pics at my mums which I will try and put on here when i collect them. Although he was awarded the The Chief Commanders Certificate for good service he never recieved it, we tried to get hold of it before he died but sadly every avenue we went down was fruitless. We have a book about the regiment with all the maps etc of where they went and when. I would be very interested in anymore info as my dad was a very private man who did not talk much about his time in the regiment apart from his last year when he suddenly taked about it quite a lot and produced all the pics.
    Liz (Crewe)
    ps. I also have my dads copy of Welsh Spearhead!!!!!!
     
  8. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Dave,

    when I get home later I will look inthe war diary for the days entry you are looking for and post it here.

    Dave
     
  9. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Liz,

    There are a few people I have spoken to who have this issue with the C in C certificate!! I was half expecting to find a copy in my grandfathers records or when I applied to the medals office but to no avail!! I recently spoke to a guy at the tank museum who thinks that over time many records have been destroyed to create "more storage space" within the army. Don't know wether to beleive it but it was an interesting comment. if have tried desperately to get a copy I even considered making a mock up one from a copy I have of someone else.

    It would be nice to see some of the photos you have!
     
  10. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Dave, Here are the specific details about the 18 August 1944

    "Regt advanced at first light to main road Falaise-Argentan with the objective of closing the pocket and contacting U.S. forces advancing from the south. Later in the morning we were relieved of this responsibility and came under the command of 4 Armd Bde, who were held up on the main road 3 miles south of Falaise. C Sqn attempted to get round the enemy to the east of the road and met opposition from infantry and 88mm guns".

    Cas: Sgt S Rich, L/Cpl GCW Jones, Sgt W Cox, Tpr F Mason, Tpr T Palmer, L/Cpl SP Every



    As you can see your Uncle is not mentioned, could it be the case that he was a casualty at a previous battle and passed away on this date? The fact that your uncle is buried in a different cemetary could suggest that he was KIA in another location. In fact it appears that he is the only member of the 53rd Recce buried in this cemetary, perhaps others on this board could suggest reasons for this?

    Dave
     
  11. ellioda0

    ellioda0 Junior Member

    Hiya Dave

    Thanks for looking into the war diary, it's my understanding that he died in a Canadian Field Hospital presumably near Bazenville... so likely he was wounded before the 18th...
    I'm away from home for another couple of weeks... I'll try to post more info...
    I'm actually in France at the moment but won't have time to get to Ryes Cemetary.. a trip I must make one day...

    Cheers
    Dave
     
  12. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

  13. jawan

    jawan Old Hand

    Dear Dave 3164, A CinC's Commendation would have been awarded in much the same way as any other gallantry or meritorious service award ie citations submitted etc. Often a CinC's Commendation would be a near miss Mention in despatches, probably though for support services or good work over a period of time rather than a specific action. I have been researching the Recce Corps for over 20 years and have my own archive, do let me have your late grandfather's full name and, if possible, service number and I will see if I have any mentions of him. Best wishes, Jawan
     
  14. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Jawan,

    L/Sgt Albert Victor Fulcher (would have been a Cpl when C in C was awarded) regi number 10601178.

    My perosnal research has so far come to the conclusion he was the Sqn medic for B Sqn. Family folklore seems to think he was awarded C in C for rescuing colleagues from a minefield, my own opinion thinks this is unlikely as perhaps a MID or higher would have been awarded for such an act. It seems more likely to me that doing his medic role or administering first aid to mine casulaties would be a more appropriate action.

    Anything you have would be much appreciated!!
     
  15. jawan

    jawan Old Hand

    Jawan,

    L/Sgt Albert Victor Fulcher (would have been a Cpl when C in C was awarded) regi number 10601178.

    My perosnal research has so far come to the conclusion he was the Sqn medic for B Sqn. Family folklore seems to think he was awarded C in C for rescuing colleagues from a minefield, my own opinion thinks this is unlikely as perhaps a MID or higher would have been awarded for such an act. It seems more likely to me that doing his medic role or administering first aid to mine casulaties would be a more appropriate action.

    Anything you have would be much appreciated!!
    Hi Dave,

    You may be aware that formations (Army, Corps, Div, Bde etc) received periodic allocations for honours and awards of all types. Recommendations cascaded upwards for scrutiny with successive commanders making their recommendation of the honour to be awarded. In order to remain within quotas recommendations were often down graded, rarely upgraded, and some would inevitably fall from the bottom of the lists. Basically the greater the more chance of death in action the higher the award - the consequence is that VC's could become DCM's which could become MM's which could become MinD's which could become CinC's Commendations etc. The basic system prevails to this day and has caused controversy in Afghanistan.There are exceptions to the quota system but this is the general process. A CinC's certificate is not a State award and would have been locally produced and presented therefore the chances of obtaining a late issue or replacement at this range will therefore I sense impossible. I would also not be at all surprised if your grandfather received his award for rescuing men from a minefield. At another time and place and in the absence of stronger recommendations for others who knows he may have received an MinD or MM. I wonder what other awards were made at this time? I cannot check because I am away from my archive at the moment. Incidentally his 1060 regimental number indicates that he was a direct enlistment into the Recce Corps. Hope this helps - do get back to me if you have questions, Jawan
     
  16. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Many thanks Jawan, that is really good information. I fear that we will never no the reasons for the C in C, I must also mention that other family have suggested that a higher award wasn't given due to a disciplinary issue (fraternisation) but again cannot be fully confirmed or denied. If you have a copy of Welsh spearhead my grandfather us mention twice, once in the main text as a squadron medic and in the list of awards at the end. His service records show he enlisted in Lichfield in January 1942.
     
  17. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Jawan I should ask what your interest in the Recce corps is?
     
  18. jawan

    jawan Old Hand

    Hi Dave,

    I have been a passionate military researcher for almost 40 years and use a forensic approach to unearth personal stories. I also served myself for over 30 years and therefore can bring "an insider's insight" into my research - military documents, systems, processes and abbreviations are very familiar to me!!I have focussed on Recce Corps for over 20 years due to a family connection with 5 Recce (Tower Hamlets Rifles) and a dear friend who served with 82 (West African) Recce. I do have a copy of Welsh Spearhead and now see from your earlier post that you have a copy of your grandfathers service record which is a priceless document to the researcher. Hope that helps, Best regards, Jawan
     
  19. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Jawan, I have been deliberatly quite blinkered in my approach to researching so far. My main reasons for starting was that my gf died on 1978 the year I was born and never had the chance to speak with him. I also served in the forces and really wanted to find out more, in fact all my family had was the photo that I used in the first message of this thread, finding anything was a surprise to my family. I have to admit I have caught the bug and want to find out as much on the 53rd Recce as I can unfortunately information does seem to be quite scarce. The trip I took to the tank museum was an example of this and I left there quite depressed at the thought of how little there is left for amatuer researcher like me. Any input no matter how big or small from people like yourself and others that have contributed means that I have a story to pass on to my children!!
     
  20. jawan

    jawan Old Hand

    Thanks Dave, it certainly is a bug ( or perhaps disease for which there is no known cure!) a major part of which, I think, is the challenge of piecing together the past in the absence of readily available information. Hence why I have by default created my own archive and why this WW2 Talk site appears so popular. As I said earlier having your late grandfathers record of service sheet is a great help (how on earth did you get it??) - I am only too pleased to help in any way I can. Incidentally although very new to WW2 Talk I can see that many of the posts contain misinformation and confusion so beware not all the "advice or help" seems to be accurate. Best of luck and keep in touch, Jawan
     

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