53rd Div D-Day plus insignia/AoS

Discussion in '53rd (Welsh) Division' started by Smudge, May 2, 2018.

  1. Smudge

    Smudge Member

    Hi chaps

    I normally use this as a guide but not sure if it's flawed (I got it from some French website ages ago).

    Screenshot 2018-05-02 10.03.41.png

    Can someone confirm the Btn's and Brigades in order of seniority please?

    I was also shown this from some book...is it correct I don't recognise that form of AoS and the white formation badge???

    image1.JPG

    Cheers in advance

    Smudge
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From the 53rd Division History by Barclay.
    Note the typo in the 2nd August 1944 to 3rd August 1945 (sic) dates
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  3. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!"

    From much experience on this matter I can attest to it being an absolute minefield.

    Barclay is accurate but his dates of the new adoption are not (a topic in of itself), similarly what insignia was used in theatre is debated.

    Also the above AOS broadly follows the adoption of a particular type of Divisional/Brigade title in around 1943. The W was never in white on BD (I believe all this stems from more Bouchery screw ups). It did appear in white on vehicles for a short period after introduction (but how many vehicles and all that is speculation etc).
     
  4. Smudge

    Smudge Member

    Thanks; doesn't highlight which were Senior brigades etc? Any idea?
     
  5. Smudge

    Smudge Member

    Thanks Swiper; I think the web site I got the info from was influenced by the Bouchery book. He also buggered up the 49th, showing the Hallamshire's has being in the Middle Brigade

    Any idea which Brigades were Senior etc?
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I thought Brigade seniority was in numerical order.
    71st, 158th then 160th.
     
  7. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Correct.

    I favour Ben Kite's Stout Hearts as a comprehensive introduction to the British Army in Normandy etc, covers kit etc well above anyone else.
     
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  8. Smudge

    Smudge Member

    I thought so too but don't want to assume that, what with Brigade's coming and going from time to time
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Seniority might have been [mis]applied on the basis of when a unit or formation joined its parent. I believe we established something like this amongst 3 Div's RE units with the senior Fd Coy being allotted the junior AoS as johnny-come-latelies to the Div.
     
  10. Tolbooth

    Tolbooth Patron Patron

    This may to totally unrelated to the question but I always assumed that they were assigned within a brigade according to the Regular Army's Order of Precedence

    The 'Handbook on the British Army 1943' says;
    "Each regiment received a number as it was formed, the number indicating the age and seniority of the regiment (in many cases actually a regiment of one battalion)."
    Although it continues;
    "These numbers no longer have any significance except from a historical and sentimental point of view"

    So within the Infantry of the line The Royal Scots are the most senior infantry regiment, then the Queens Royal Regiment, The Buffs, King's Own Royal Regiment etc down to the A & SH and the Rifle Brigade propping up the bottom.
    There's a similar system for Cavalry and yeomanry regiments etc and I'm sure I've seen rules for precedence of other corps, units and how they all fit together.
     

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