52nd Anti-Tank Regiment nomenclature

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Chris C, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi,

    Wikipedia (fwiw) refers to this regiment as 52nd (6th London) Anti-Tank Regiment. I am wondering if that is actually the correct designation, though - none of the other TA regiments converted to anti-tank (from what I've seen) continued to refer to their previous battalion number within the regiment. But it does seem like just about every converted TA regiment was given the right to continue to refer to its previous self.

    Am I right in thinking "52nd (London) Anti-Tank Regiment" might have been the proper name of the regiment?
     
    Steve Mac likes this.
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  3. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Thank you Owen! I forgot about Derek's site. I shall now hang my head in shame. And also worry about how 71st Anti-Tank Regiment should properly be named. It's a minefield!
     
  4. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    Chris, the 6th London title comes from 63 Field Regiment from which 52 Anti-Tank were formed. They in turn got their title from originally being 6 London Brigade RFA(TA) back in 1920. There were 7th London and 8th London Field Regiments as well.
    71 Anti-Tank did not have a title. Titles were granted to (mostly) converted TA units in February 1942. 71st was formed in September 1940 and was therefore war formed and not TA so did not receive a title.
    Hope that clears it up but you are right it is a minefield. I have been researching this stuff for about 30 years and I still don't fully understand it and still make mistakes.
    Derek
     
  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    What a coincidence. I’ve just been reading about the 206th Bty, 52nd (6th London) Anti-Tank Regiment, RAs, involvement in the ‘red’ column during the ‘Arras counter-attack’, 21 May 1940. Then look in on this forum and find this at the top of page 1.
     
    Chris C likes this.
  6. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    That's really interesting - thank you Derek. I have seen places online where they are referred to as (Royal Welch Fusiliers) or (Royal Welch).
     
    stolpi likes this.
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    stolpi and Chris C like this.
  8. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    There is at least one memoir by a man of the regiment, Maurice Court, called Gunners on Tour. He was actually in 206th Battery both at that time and through to the end of the war. However, at that time he was not on the guns but was responsible for collecting and treating water for the battery.
     
    Steve Mac likes this.
  9. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    So with regards to 71 Anti-Tank, did they not get the TA designation? Sorry, you said that... so a unit had to have been (entirely) in the pre-war TA to get that designation?

    I've been thinking about the TA designation as one indicating "not regular" as opposed to being in some way a mark of destinction.
     
  10. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    Chris, there seems to be little information on the various classifications of regiments. As I understand it (and even I am not sure) is that regiments in place before September 1939 were Regular units and those who were part of the volunteer reserve were TA (or Supplementary Reserve in some areas, mostly N Ireland). TA units were told to raise duplicate regiments in 1939 and these were also designated (TA). Non RA units converted to RA during the war kept their TA designation on transfer. Any unit formed after the start of the war and without any TA affiliation were designated War Formed to distinguish then from the Regular units. This distinction was not shown in the units title.

    As to who got these titles, I have done a quick scan through my site and it would appear that (with a couple of exceptions) only TA units received these titles and even then not all of them.

    As for the (Royal Welch Fusiliers) or (Royal Welch) title for 71 Anti-Tank, I think the confusion arises because two batteries of 70 Anti-Tank were used to form 71 Anti-Tank. 70 Anti-Tank was granted the title Royal Welch Fusiliers in February 1942. It, in its turn, had inherited the title from 60 Anti-Tank of which it was a duplicate. 60 Anti-Tank had been formed from 5th Battalion The Royal Welch Fusiliers.

    I hope that makes the position a little clearer although the whole process is quite confusing.
    Derek
     
    Chris C likes this.
  11. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I agree, it is quite confusing overall! But, thank you, Derek! :)

    I hope I am not doing any of the regiments a disservice if I don't usually use their full title!
     
    Derek Barton likes this.

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