Hi, I'e looked everywhere but can't find out which units accompanied the 52 Recce Regt as part of the Seaborne Echelon of 52 Division during Market Garden. Does anyone out there know? Cheers Tom
Tom, I notice that no one has replied. Perhaps no one knows or like me did not really understand the question. Like other airborne formations all personnel and vehicles which were not to be airlifted were sent by sea in advance of the operation. Vehicles from all the units were included in the seaborne echelon. I know you are interested in 3ton GS lorries. All the divisions 3 tonners seem to have gone by sea and were held in holding area until they could be called forward. As the planned operation did not take place all 1st and 2nd line transport was used by XXX Corps to lift supplies forward. The planned airborne part of the division joined later, also by sea. Mike This is the limit of my knowledge and is probably non sense.
Mike, Thanks for the reply - not nonsense at all. Apologies if my question was ambiguous, but according to Moulton's book about the clearance of the approaches to Antwerp the 52nd Division seaborne tail included some formed units as well as the more normal echelon vehicles (as per 1st Airborne Div for example). I've seen elsewhere (Autumn Gale) that the 52nd Recce Regt was operating on the left flank of Op Garden by about 23 - 24 Sep 44, and Moulton mentions that one of the Bde HQ's and a whole infantry battalion was also present. They later poodled off to Ostend to meet up with the rest of the Division when it turned up in mid-October. I'm planning t pick up the War Diary for 155 Bde next time I get to Kew as this is the one I think accompanied the Seaborne Tail. You're right about the 3-tonners by the way - I'd be interested to see if they were using Austin's like their airborne colleagues. Regards Tom
Not sure if this is what you are looking for but a couple of passages about 52 Recce from Only the Enemy in Front by Richard Doherty. "Among the units involved in GARDEN were 52nd and 43 Reconnaissance Regiments. The Lowlanders of 52nd Division had, as we have seen, been converted to an air-portable role as part of First Allied Airborne Army. The air-portable bulk of the division was to have landed in the Arnhem bridgehead at Deelen airfield while the remainder, including 52 Recce, advanced with XXX Corps to relieve the airborne soldiers. However, the division's part in MARKET had been cancelled with the failure to take the airfield. That left the 'marching' element of the division carrying out a ground role and, on the evening of 21 September, 52 Recce arrived in Son on the Wilhelmina canal to come under command of 101 (US) Airborne Division which had dropped along the road from St Odenrode to Grave. C Squadron were to protect canal bridges against counter- attack while RHQ moved to St Odenrode. As the recce men wore airborne windproof smocks they had an almost German appearance in poor light while the Americans looked German to the recce men, due to the shape of their helmets. On the 22nd, C Squadron moved to the right of the divisional corridor to protect that flank, occupying Beek and Donk and observing the Germans on the other side of the Uitwaterings canal. The squadron had mortar and anti-tank detachments as had A Squadron which reinforced them next day. John Hathaway, A Squadron's second in command, became it's first battle casualty when his Dingo scout car left the road and hit a tree. Then came an order for 52 Recce to move north to the Grave area to deploy on the north-west tip of the salient. The relief of A and C Squadrons was slow and the rest of the regiment preceded them to Schaik, a village just east of s'Hertogenbosch. Then, as A and C Squadrons were moving to Schaik, the enemy launched a strong counter-attack from Schijndel with a force of about twenty tanks or SP guns and 2,000 infantry."................ In this operation Scotland was also represented by 15 Recce which entered The Netherlands on 21 September. (I can post up the pages regarding Market Garden from the book if you are interested) ---------------------- From The British Reconnaissance Corps in World War II by Richard Doherty Operation Market Garden: "The furthest bridge, at Arnhem, was assigned to British 1st Airborne Division; with the bridge taken, 52nd (Lowland) Div-now an air-portable formation-was to be flown into nearby Deelen airfield. Thus two recce units that had so far seen no service in NW Europe would be committed to battle-1st Abn Recce Squadron and 52 (Lowland) Recce Regiment. In the familiar story of Arnhem the role of 1st Abn Recce Sqn is less well known. Under command of Maj Freddie Gough, the Squadron, equipped with jeeps armed with Vickers K-guns, was to carry out a coup de main strike to seize Arnhem Bridge and hold it until the division's main body arrived......Gliders carried the squadron's heavy equipment while the men parachuted from Dakotas, but their supporting 9 Field Co RE never linked up with them. Three other Recce Regiments had parts to play in Market Garden, 15 (Scottish), 43 (Wessex) and 52 (Lowland)." Lesley
Lesley, Many thanks for posting. It would be great to see the Market Garden pages as well. I've got a lot of research to do clearly! Regards Tom
In "Mountain and Flood" it says the seaborne echelon landed in France through Mulberry port. It consisted of the 52 recce. and elements of 157 Brigade and stores , under Brig. James Russell. 157 Brigade consisted of 5th Kosb, 7 Cameronians and the 5th HLI.
Tom, Have you checked the entry for 157 Inf Bde of the Div in Joslen? "On 12th August 1944 the Bde was formed into a Group as the sea echelon to 52 Inf Div which at this time was organised in the UK for Air Landing operations in NW Europe...In the meantime the Bde had moved to NW Europe with the following additional Units under command; RAC - 52 Recce RA - 79 Fd Regt 304 Atk Bty 54 Atk Regt 354 Bty 108 LAA Regt RE - 249 Fd Pk Coy 17 Br Pl S&T - 529 Inf Bde Coy RASC 76 Div Tps Coy RASC Med - 157 Fd Amb Ord - 52 Fd Maint Sec Det, 52 Div Ord Fd Pk Pro - Two Secs 52 Div Pro Coy" Not mentioned but I'm sure the relevant Secs of Div Sigs moved with the Bde and Regts as required. Oddly enough, the Bde is shown as losing 5 HLI and 1 Glas H for the period 8th Aug 1944 to 29th Oct 1944, leaving only 6 HLI on the books. Did it just take one Bn over, the remainder re-joining when the Div arrived in mid-October? Gary
Hi Sorry, I was wrong , the reorganisation of 157 brigade was after operation "Blackcock". Before that as Gary says 157 Brigade was 5HLI, 6HLI and 1st Glasgow Highlanders.
Many thanks to all for the replies and copies from books and war diaries. Much for me to ponder. Gary, I think you might be right about the one infantry bn - it looks like I should be looking at 6 HLI diaries when I next get to Kew. Interesting mixture of units in the seaborne echelon. Regards Tom
Hi very interesting reading: I have my late uncle's Army Service Records- He served with the 52nd Lowland Div/ 108 LAA Regiment/ on his record the last battery he served with reads:- 108 LAA 354 battery/ I contacted the Royal Artillery Museum London and they send me the war diary of 354 battery from 1st Sept 1944- 9th Oct 1944 ( uncle was wounded on 9th Oct 1944) He embarked overseas on 1st/ 2nd from London docks and on the 17th sept came under the command of XXX Corps, however on his service record the is ( X11) research tells me this can be a transfer from regular unit and transferred to another. I presume the transfer in question is to XXX Corps the records state = 108 LAA then 108: this is confusing because as a family we were led to believe my late uncle flew into Market Garden on a glider. I am fully aware the 52nd did not fly into Arnhem in the end. I think my uncle was wounded on the Island, his wounds coming from shellfire ( his gun was not put out of action) Mountain & flood is an excellent source as is the 52nd Recce book however the 108 LAA is only mentioned twice: They shot down a German bomber and later during the Rhine crossing were the first British unit to shoot down a jet! The 108 LAA garrisoned the Island with the 43rd Wessex Div and many casualties happened on the Island. I wonder if any of the airborne trained 52nd Lowland Division soldiers did actually fly into Arnhem with other units ( many were transferred to other units) as such the 108 LAA into XXX Corps! Any additional information will be gratefully received.
Hi, Thanks for the information on 108 LAA Regiment, I hadn't realised the Seaborne Element had deployed so early in September. By coincidence I was also thinking today about the possibility of 52 Division sending in an advance party with the airborne element of Op Market Garden. After all, the Polish Bde sent small numbers in before their main drop. Perhaps it is more likely that they were attached to Corps HQ though, although perhaps with airborne as well as seaborne elements. Regards Tom
Hi, I previously stated that my late uncle Wayne Wilfred Williams / 52nd Lowland Div- 108 LAA regiment / embarked for Market Garden with 354 Battery R A via the sea. However after contacting the Army Flying Museum ; a lot of research was undertaken! Although it is stated on my uncle's service record that he departed on the 1st Sept 1944 ( this is in fact a generalisation) After contacting the Army Records (Glasgow) and stating that part of my uncle's record was missing ; after a search This turned out to be correct! I was told that the MOD Army pensions ( NOT THE ARMY) had removed documents involving service men who:- had flown into battle. The reason; this was deemed even more dangerous than entering the nature of warfare on e.g. ship/sea or over land! The reason I was given:- the family's could claim a Larger pension from the Army! I stated I was not interested in this matter and was promptly told the was other documents, but they would not disclose the nature of these records. The Army sent the document out: This proved to be a highly detailed Army pension/ casualty form ( a lot more detailed than the Service Records) It turns out my uncle was part of the FAAA / ( which I knew) However he was transferred into the 2nd Air landing Light Ant-Aircraft Battery! This Battery along with an American engineering + the 52nd lowland Div were to take and hold Deelan Airstrip north of Arnhem! As we are aware the 1st Airborne/ XXX Corps became trapped and never secured the bridge therefore, the AFDAG / The Airborne Forward Delivery Airfield Group never left England as planned on the 19th sept 1944 : ( Glider borne) The constant change of the battle along with inclement weather prevented these units - American Engineering airfield unit/ 52nd Lowland & 2nd Air Landing Light Anti-Aircraft Battery from entering the battle! On the 23rd sept the order was given 23HH ( American Para's had found a airstrip at B-82 Grave) and on the 26th sept the 2nd air landing LAA Battery ( without the American engineering battalion & the 52nd Lowland, took off from RAF Saltby; not in gliders but in C-47 Dakotas( 209) with the AFDAG. A massive fighter escort was flown in with this group and this was the biggest airborne resupplied airborne mission ever! They landed safely picking up wounded soldiers & Glider pilots( after swiftly unloading the cargo of jeeps, fuel and ammunition!) however the battle was lost and the RAF took over the airstrip after 2 days. On my uncle's record it states 2/ 1944 NWE and the letters SY this is the code for RAF Saltby! The airmen were disburse into the 2nd Army and my uncle was wounded on THE ISLAND on 9th October 1944. He later returned to Germany and I think he went to Belson! Only my ( wanting to get to the bottom of things)paid off in the end.
* The first deployment of th 6th Bn Highland Light Infantry, 157th Infantry Brigade, 52nd (Lowland) Division is covered in detail in Pieter's (stolpi) Nijmegen Bridgehead thread at posts No. 48 to 55 here: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/49363-nijmegen-bridgehead-iiss-pz-corps-counterattack-in-october-1944/page-2?hl=+nijmegen%20+bridgehead Their arrival in the NW Europe theatre was seaborne and their first action was attached to the 50th (Northumbrian) Division on The Island. Further to Lesley's post No. 4, the 61st Recce Regiment was also involved in Operation Market Garden, suffering one fatality, Major SG Alexander; link here: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/53730-61st-recce-members/?hl=%2Bmajor+%2Bstanley+%2Balexander#entry627719 Best, Steve.
Hi Tom, Sorry I am late to the party, I have only just joined the forum. In answer to your original question, George Blake’s Mountain and Flood provides the following information about the Seaborne Echelon. The echelon consisted of 6HLI along with the 52 Reconnaissance Regiment and 79 Field Regiment RA, plus supporting elements. They travelled from Tilbury docks in London to the Mulberry at Arromanches at the beginning of September, before making their way up to the front line. The Recce Regiment went on ahead but the remainder had their vehicles requisitioned and had to find other ways to get to the front, arriving on the Island at the beginning of October. My grandfather was 6HLI and was wounded on 9 October near Bemmel. Regards, Paddy
