51st Highland and 7. Panzer Divisions

Hi all, I am doing some research on the 51HD retreat across France to St Valery. I want to get some German and French perspectives into what I am doing but I'm struggling to locate 7. Panzer and 5. Panzer firsthand accounts. I have Hans Von Luck's Panzer Commander (with a healthy dose of scepticism), The Rommel Papers, and Russell Stolfi's 7th Panzer in France. Does anyone have any ideas where I might find some personal accounts from ordinary German soldiers in these two divisions? Ta!

 

You need to read this thread: Against all odds – Saint-Valery-en-Caux (June 1940)

The main author being Christian Luyckx, from Belgium. He will know what German and French accounts exist.

Then you could search online with "7th Panzer Division" or "7 Panzer Division" + "1940" site:ww2talk.com Dropping division may get more.

Needless to say there are other threads than Christian's on 51HD and St Valery; which can be id'd with a similar search.

Others here focus on May 1940 and just checked the 1940 sub-forum with Valery in the forum's simple search option and it id'd x27 threads.

 

Hallo Euan,

I pretty much share everything I find on the thread referred to in David's post.

Every now and then, whenever some new relevant information comes my way, share it with the forum's community. This usually fuels a healthy discussion which often leads to fresh insights.

Since you did not very specific regarding the context of your research I suggest you first sift through all the thread's posts and contact me if you have further questions.

KR,
Christian

 

Hi chaps, thanks very much for this. I am new to the forum so I will look through the suggested threads. To be more specific I am looking for French and German perspectives of:

- Meuse crossing at Dinant/Houx
- Battle of Abbeville
- Rommel crossing the Somme around Conde-Folie
- The civilian exodus and experience
- Taking Rouen
- Encirclement and capture of St Valery-en-caux

Hope that makes sense.

BW

Euan

 

I have a copy of "Rommel's Lieutenants, the men who served the Desert Fox, France, 1940" by Samuel W Mitcham, jr. (the title is silly, but has a bio of several of the officers.
more important, in the back it has a bibliography.
The one time that the 51st is mentioned by name is in the von Luck chapter and it is about 1944. Sorry
Here is the bibliography, etc.

 

I will say that the book never excited me but it sits on my shelf, so,, there it is

 

Hallo Euan,

You Christmas-list seems to go far beyond the mere Saint-Valery-en-Caux scope... It seems to me that you research is more focused on the 7th Panzer. In that respect, I am somewhat surprised your list doesn't include the Battle of Arras.

Providing you let me know what you're specifically looking for, I might possibly be able to help you with the Dinant/Houx crossing (in Belgium). I should also suggest that, in order to make sense of the various war diaries and various other sources, you'd better plan a trip in order to get acquainted with the local topography. Only then can you fully fathom the strategic importance of the area (not only during the May 1940 campaign, but also in 1944). I would also strongly recommend visiting the Haut-le-Wastia museum in Anhée. Since there was no BEF presence in that area, the museum is usually overlooked by British historians. The place is (almost literally) a cavern of Ali-Baba for those interested in the May 1940 events. The museum if filled from top to bottom (no exaggeration!) with historical artefacts! If you intend to visit the site, it is important though to keep an open mind. Just as in Normandy, the locals tend to place Rommel on a pedestal. They also cultivate a very romantic perspective of the French troops that fought there. Though the French soldiers indeed fought very gallantly, it is hard to overlook the mismatches throughout their entire chain of command.

The taking of Rouen and the encirclement of the Saint-Valery-en-Caux have been discussed in the Saint-Valery thread. If you intend to dig into the taking of Rouen, I would suggest you also cover the bombardment of Yvetot - a very sad story indeed...

You should also keep in mind that the documentation you seek is generally in French or German. Unfortunately, due to professional priorities, I currently don't have the time for translations. It is my experience though that most online translation tools start to produce very strange results (to say the least!) when confronted with specific 1940 military terms, terminology, abbreviations and unit designations. I would therefor strongly suggest that you seek assistance from French- and German-speaking forum members with a military background.

KR,
Christian

 

Christian, the museum looks cool.
Next time I am in Europe to visit family I will try to find time.

 

You won't be sorry - the region is breathtaking and well worth a visit.

Be sure to pay a visit to the ruins of the Château de Poilvache. From there, you can overlook the entire Houx battlefield.
The picture hereunder should make it clear why the Germans picked this very spot to cross the Meuse.

I haven't been able to find any proof, but had I been a German Panzer commander in early May 1940, I would have established my CP there. Perfect for conducting the river crossing while being able not only to observe all enemy movements on the opposite side, but also to effectively direct artillery (cover/counter-battery) fire. Keep in mind that the Germans were quite familiar with the surrounding since they occupied the region during WWI. Though the position is somewhat exposed, the Germans had very little to fear from the Armée de l'Air or the AASF - the place must have been packed with light and heavy Flak and the Luftwaffe had established almost complete air dominance.



The 'Ile de Houx' as seen from the ruins of the Château de Poilvache (in the direction of Dinant).

 

I will hide behind the wall, you stand and see if anyone is hiding in the trees on the island

 

I'm afraid the foolish days, when I fancied playing hero in order to impress girls, are long gone...
Besides, there were no trees on the island in 1940...

 

A very nice picture