Hi All, Has anyone heard of this story? I was reading through some of the BNAs papers and this headline caught my eye. On June 28th 1940 a couple papers reported on telegram from Marseilles. It said that a train carrying 500 British refugees went missing between Nice and Spain. After June 28th I cant seem to find anything else about it. Has anyone else heard of this story and know anything about it? I have attached a screenshot of the article from the Birmingham Gazette. Best regards.
In 'Lifeline across the Sea' there were some mercy mission (2A & 2B) in June & July 1940 focussed on Lisbon where "diplomats" from Italy (residing in the UK) were 'exchanged' for British dipolmatic 'staff & families' from Italy and possibly southern France. The 3 ships names that crop up are: Monarch of Bermuda Orduna Conte Rosso TD For example: Arnold Hague Ports database Monarch of Bermuda: Clyde, Jun 21, 1940 Independent Lisbon, Jun 24, 1940 Lisbon, Jun 27, 1940 Independent Clyde, Jun 30, 1940 Orduna: Liverpool, Jul 19, 1940 Independent Lisbon, Jul 25, 1940 Lisbon, Jul 31, 1940 Independent Liverpool, Aug 4, 1940
On 25 June He (C.S.2) enquired if Admiralty instruction (1401) re territorial waters applied and was informed (2006) that it did. Admiralty instructed C-in-C to sail ULSTER PRINCE to embark 1600 British evacuees from Lisbon if she could maintain 18 knots out and home. Convoyweb shows Ulster Prince arrived Falmouth 19 June, with troops from St Nazaire. The next movement shown is sailing for Iceland from the Clyde on 9 July. So she may well have gone to Lisbon.
This seems to confirm that they did go to Lisbon: From IWM catalogue - Private papers of Lieutenant G Hughes RNR Content description Photocopy of his ts account (8pp) of his service, September 1939 - August 1941, as a Junior Engineer Officer in HMS ULSTER PRINCE, a Cross Channel Ferry used as a transport and then converted into an assault ship, including: joining ship in Newport, South Wales, September 1939; ferrying troops to St Nazaire and Nantes in France, September - December 1939; to the ports of Northern France, December 1939 - April 1940; from Leith to Norway and then evacuating them back to Scotland, April - June 1940; evacuating troops, including survivors of the sinking of SS LANCASTRIA, from St Nazaire and British civilians from Lisbon, Portugal, June 1940; taking reinforcements to the Faroe Islands and Iceland, July 1940; refitted as an assault ship, joining the Eastern Mediterranean Fleet at Alexandria, July - November 1940; escorting supplies to the Greek Army, the Naval base at Suda Bay in Crete, and the garrison at Tobruk, November 1940 - April 1941; the sinking of HMS ULSTER PRINCE in Nauplia harbour by the Luftwaffe during the evacuation of Greece, 25 April 1941; being evacuated to Suda Bay; Alexandria, Egypt; and eventually to Scotland, April - August 1941. My underlining
Ulster Prince details: Clyde, May 5, 1940 Escorted Clyde, May 11, 1940 Faroes, May 30, 1940 Escorted Clyde, May 31, 1940 Clyde, May 31, 1940 Escorted Harstad, Jun 7, 1940 Escorted Clyde, Jun 12, 1940 Clyde, Jun 14, 1940 FF.2 (Clyde - St Nazaire) St Nazaire, Jun 17, 1940 St Nazaire, Jun 18, 1940 FF.2A (St Nazaire - Falmouth) Falmouth, Jun 19, 1940 Clyde, Jul 9, 1940 Escorted Reykjavik, Jul 11, 1940 Reykjavik, Jul 12, 1940 Escorted Akureyri, Jul 13, 1940 Akureyri, Jul 15, 1940 Escorted Reykjavik, Jul 16, 1940 Reykjavik, Jul 16, 1940 Escorted Clyde, Jul 18, 1940 Theres nothing in Convoyweb that shows Ulster Prince docking at Lisbon TD
Hi TD, No, but as I pointed out in a previous message: On 25 June Admiralty instructed C-in-C to sail ULSTER PRINCE to embark 1600 British evacuees from Lisbon if she could maintain 18 knots out and home. Convoyweb shows Ulster Prince arrived Falmouth 19 June, with troops from St Nazaire. The next movement shown is sailing for Iceland from the Clyde on 9 July. So she may well have gone to Lisbon. Lieutenant Hughes report fills in the gap and shows that she did indeed go to Lisbon, it would be interesting to see if he says how many they picked up. Roy
Convoyweb might not have anything if it sailed solo? That would explain the emphasis on being able to make 18 knots.
It would still show but be recorded as 'Independent' as opposed to 'Escorted' or 'Convoy No' Post 2 shows 'Independent' Post 5 shows 'Escorted' TD
From Ulster Prince TNA movement cards: Sailed Falmouth 28/6 for Lisbon; departs Lisbon 3/7, sailed 4/7; due Holyhead 7/7, arr Greenock 8/7; sailed (sealed orders) 9/7 for Iceland. Couldn't upload the file as 'too large' will save the relevant card
Aha - relooking at the details on Convoyweb there is a good gap for that ship St Nazaire, Jun 18, 1940 FF.2A (St Nazaire - Falmouth) Falmouth, Jun 19, 1940 Clyde, Jul 9, 1940 Escorted Reykjavik, Jul 11, 1940 So assume ship picked up Lancastria passengers from St Nazaire(ish), sailed back to Falmouth, disembarked them then sailed as per your details on 28th for Lisbon Are you still inclined to obtain the papers of Lt Hughes ?? TD
still be interesting to know what passengers they were - they may not be those who you believe were on that train TD
No, I think that several thousand were rescued through Lisbon in the weeks after the armistice on 25 June. Unfortunately I have spent this weeks pocket money on the movement cards, so I won't be able to get Lieutenant Hughes report ! Roy
Maybe! Looking through the Operation Aerial figures, they show under 'unknown ports': British evacuated, 25 June - 96, 26th -183, 27th - 504 (too early for the train?), then nothing till 403 (or 463) on July 13th. So the Aerial figures do not seem to include those from Lisbon, anymore than they include those rescued through the southern French ports. Strange
Doesn't help with train question but shows general situation and indicates there were several hundred stranded in Nice. From Hansard 19 July 1940: 4. Mr. Lawson asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on what dates did British consular officers leave Nice, Toulon and Marseilles; had all other British nationals left before those dates; and were instructions sent from London regarding the evacuation of British nationals from southern France? § Mr. Butler After consultation with His Majesty's Embassy at Bordeaux, His Majesty's Consuls-General at Marseilles and Nice left their posts on 18th and 189 19th June respectively. The British Vice-Consul at Toulon left for Marseilles on 17th June. In the case of Marseilles and Toulon, my information is that all British residents who at that time wished to leave were evacuated by sea from Marseilles simultaneously with the consular officers concerned. From the Nice district some 1,500 British subjects were evacuated by sea from Cannes, but several hundreds unfortunately remained for whom no transport of any kind could he obtained, in spite of all the endeavours of His Majesty's Consul-General. It was in these circumstances that the Consul-General, realising that he could no longer render any effective aid to British subjects by remaining at Nice, left by road for Spain and was able to arrange with the Spanish frontier authorities for the entry into Spain of a large number of British refugees from France who had found their way to the frontier. He is now in the South of France but is not allowed by the French authorities to act in any official capacity. Instructions were sent from the Foreign Office by telegraph on 15th June advising His Majesty's Consul-General at Marseilles, who was in touch with His Majesty's Consul-General at Nice, to co-operate with the Sea Transport Officer and to evacuate British subjects by any British ship available. Appropriate instructions were also issued by the Admiralty and the Ministry of Shipping. The hon. Member will no doubt appreciate the difficulty of providing British shipping for purposes of this kind at a moment when very heavy calls were being made on it for the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force and Allied Armies in France. Back to SWEDEN (GERMAN TROOPS). Forward to GREAT BRITAIN, CHINA AND JAPAN. Noticed a typo? | Report other issues | © UK Parliament Tim
From what I have read and seen about Operation Aerial it seems to only cover evacuation from French ports with just 1 reference to Lisbon as quoted in post 6. TD
Agree TD. My understanding is that Operation Aerial only covered the evacuations from the Western French Ports. Whilst Ulster Prince had been involved in Aerial she was despatched to Lisbon on 25 June, which I believe is the day Op Aerial ended. In other words I don't think the Lisbon run had anything to do with Aerial. Happy to be corrected. Tim
