My son and I are trying to find out about my Grandad but I am not having much luck trying to work out what my Grandad did in the war. we have his service record but it does not really tell us what he did. He started out in the Buff's and then the story goes and its confirmed by his records that he went missing for 2 week and then ended up in the guard house. He then did some time with 44STS and the 50STS I have found some number training schools but don't know where the 44 and 50 were. We are not sure if he even went overseas but then he told my grandma about being with some spies in Norway and then getting blown up with a major called Hambro (who was killed when with the 8th army) I am sorry to say my history of the war is not very good but I am learning with my 8 year old son. Grandad's name was Robert Charles Hearn and his number was 6295364. He also got a King's Badge for invalided personnel. From the messages and replies I have read there seem to be a wealth of knowledge. Thanks joalice.
Here are the Majors Casualty details Name: HAMBRO, ROBERT ALEXANDER Initials: R A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Major Regiment/Service: Reconnaissance Corps Unit Text: 44th (7th Bn. The Queen's Own Royal West Regt.) Regt. Age: 33 Date of Death: 08/08/1943 Service No: 53008 Additional information: Son of Angus Valdimar Hambro, M.P. for North Dorset Divn., 1937-1945, and Rosamund Maud Hambro (nee Kearsley, of Blandford, Dorsetshire; husband of Barbara Hambro, of Ashbury, Berkshire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 7. A. 20. Cemetery: TRIPOLI WAR CEMETERY
This is the only "Major Hambro" killed in the army! In Memory of Major ROBERT ALEXANDER HAMBRO 53008, 44th (7th Bn. The Queen's Own Royal West Regt.) Regt., Reconnaissance Corps who died age 33 on 08 August 1943 Son of Angus Valdimar Hambro, M.P. for North Dorset Divn., 1937-1945, and Rosamund Maud Hambro (nee Kearsley, of Blandford, Dorsetshire; husband of Barbara Hambro, of Ashbury, Berkshire. Remembered with honour TRIPOLI WAR CEMETERY
Hi Joalice the STS were Special Training Schools ran by Special Operations Executive - STS 44 was at Water Eaton Manor near Oford, STS 50 was at Gorse Hill, Witley near Godalming in Surrey. I have a Major Richard Everard Hambro with SOE but no trace of his death.
Thanks very much for the information. I wonder what my Grandad did with the STS... Thanks for the info about Hambro I wonder how they were connected...
The SOE Major Hambro was a STS Commandant, alas to find out what your grandfather did may be difficult as most of the NCO files have been destroyed post war and we rely on nominal rolls etc to discover who did what. There is a surviving file for a Hearn born in 1891 - could possibly be a relative.
2nd and 4th Battalion, The Buffs (2 and 4 Buffs) were both in 44th Infantry Division in France just before the Germans invaded. Do the records indicate if he joined the Buffs in France, or when they got back after Dunkirk? A division had three brigades, each of three battalions. Each brigade would have taken personnel from its own battalions to form a Brigade Anti-Tank (gun) Company. In January 1941, 44 Div's three Brigade Anti-Tank Companies were converted to a Reconnaissance Battalion (Recce Bn), later retitled 44th Reconnaissance Regiment. Your grandfather may have gone from one of the Buffs battalions into an Anti-Tank Company and then been 'converted', or he may have gone straight into the Recce Bn, depending on when he joined. The service record dates should give you some clues as to what was most likely. The Recce Bns were intended to be elite troops (like commandos and paras) which may explain why they were trained at the STSs. Attendance at an STS could explain contact with spies from or for Norway, training with explosives and getting blown up. Was the explosives incident the cause of your grandfather's invalidity - was it between Jan 41 (or Dec 41 if we assume that's when Hambro joined them, see below) and May 42 (when the Recce Bn sailed overseas)? The London Gazette links R A Hambro with the Recce Regt (right hand column under TERRITORIAL ARMY). He was commissioned into the Dorsetshire Regiment which tallies with his parents' details. 44 Recce Regt information taken from Only the Enemy In Front by Richard Doherty.
Wow, thanks, The king's Badge letter is dated 26th June 1944 The date of his termination of furlough ? is 10/7/44 He joined the 7th Buff 26th June 1940. 63/61 ITC posted PTE 15.3.41 160/41 Y.list posted 14.6.41 Then he was awarded 14 days in the guard house for failing to report to DDMS The storys goes that he was shoving coal and then he was told to join the STS. 50 STS 7.5.43 and then 44 STS 19.6.43 leave from hospital 6.6.44 to 10.7.44 He was also in the TA until 10.7.44 in the section that says service at home or abroad it only mentions home 26th June until 10.7.44. I hope that will help you give me some more information. thanks
Yes, this is where some of the confussion of the story of him being in Norway as in the section of campaigns, medals and decoration there is the stamp Awarded war medals 1939/45. I helped my Grandma to get them back.
Yes, this is where some of the confussion of the story of him being in Norway as in the section of campaigns, medals and decoration there is the stamp Awarded war medals 1939/45. I helped my Grandma to get them back. So no mention of a France and Germany Star. Possible that he didnt serve overseas, or at least not for a period long enough to be entitled to a campaign medal. It might be worth scanning the documents and posting them
Ah so he could have gone abroad just not for was it 45 days of service. I will scan the records and post them.
Thanks for the help so far, I just wondered if there was a quick answer to what No 12 ITC and 'Y' list meant.
In regards to Y list, The army ruling at one time was that if a soldier had been in hospital for 21 days or more he was put on the Y-list; which meant that when he became fit for duty he was sent to a holding unit and then could be sent to any unit other than his own. This, in most cases, was not a popular move which, I believe under the orders of General Montgomery, was changed. The ruling became that if a soldier was in hospital for 21 day when wounded or sick for 30 days he was entitled to seven days home sick leave and then would return to his own unit if they wished or could be transferred to another unit. BBC - WW2 People's War - I Nearly Lose It, Army Life - Part Three and for ITC see post 4 onwards here, http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/general/8632-basic-training.html
No. 12 Infantry Training Centre (ITC) served the Buffs (East Kent Regiment) and the East Surrey Regiment. It was formed at Canterbury in January 1942 by combining the training elements of the two regimental depots. Previously, each regiment had trained its own troops. Depending on where the entry sits in the record, it could indicate whether he was a recruit or, perhaps, an instructor.
there are two ITC enteries for my grandad one 15.3.41 and then he was Y list 14.6.41 so something most have happened at the ITC for my Grandad to have been admitted to hospital. He first posted to the 7th BN the Buffs (so where would that training school have been?) then it looks like 30th BN 18.12.41 after Y List then to LDRD Duke of York HG Chelsea 18.4.42 and then what looks like R/Sential/5121 man power 9.4.42 then no 12 ITC 30.3.43 He then went AWOL from 1050 17.4.43 to 12.20 20.4.43 then did guard room 23.4.43 then released 6.5.43 and then posted to 44 STS 19.6.43 and then No 50 STS 1.7.43 and then P.A.44 STS again 10.4.44 and then Y listed 8.5.44. My Dad seems to remember that Grandad talked about Tito army being involved with that.
Thanks for all your help, I am finding this so interesting (and confussing-but becoming clearer with your help). I never really liked history at school but this is all so much more interesting and real. Thanks
