5 Corps or 1st Armoured Division WD for Sept 44?

Discussion in 'Higher Formations' started by Chris C, May 23, 2019.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    Hello all,

    I was wondering if anyone would already happen to have the war diary for September 1944 for V Corps or 1st Armoured Division. I would like to piece together 22-23 September and the crossing of the Marecchia River.

    Come to think of it, 56 Division took over the offensive for the next few days after that for the push to the Rubicone. Anyone have that?
     
  2. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Chris.

    I bet Gary Tankard has what you need.

    Start a conversation with him.

    Regards

    Frank
     
    Chris C likes this.
  3. hutt

    hutt Member

    Can I add a cheeky request for a copy if they were to be available? At the beginning of September my fathers unit were under their command..

    Very heavy rain a.m 2nd. Dull and Cloudy. Received orders that Platoon is to move under command 1 (Br) Armd. Div. and to report to 656 Coy RASC of that Division. 13 x 3 ton om amm detail.
     
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  4. hutt

    hutt Member

  5. hutt

    hutt Member

    Hope the pages from 70th Medium regiment diary are of use
     
  6. hutt

    hutt Member

    Battery positions during September are recorded here but frustratingly I've somehow missed the far LH side of the sheets so the exact dates during the month are not apparent but should be possible to be inferred from the narrative for the whole month. DSC08424.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Apologies for my late arrival.

    From what I can make out 43 Lorried Infantry Brigade (one the many names it is referred by) was the first to cross the Marecchia on the 23rd September. This was the same day 1st Armoured Division was informed it was being disbanded. I don't have the 43 LIB diaries I'm afraid. The attachments below are from 2nd Armoured Brigade, 1 KRRC and 10th Hussars WDs - the latter unit providing tank support to 43 LIB.

    From 10th Hussars WD this gives some information from their perspective.

    10_Royal_Hussars_Sep_44_0010.jpg
    10_Royal_Hussars_Sep_44_0011.jpg
    2nd Armoured Brigade Operational Order from 23rd September.

    2_Armoured_Brigade_Sep_44_0031.jpg

    1st Armoured Division Sit Rep from 23rd September:

    1_KRRC_Sep_44_0162.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  8. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I will be down at Kew (hopefully) next week and, if I have time, I'll will pick up the 43 LIB and Ghurka battalion WDs and send them on to you.

    For 56th Division operation - 43 LIB come under their command and then the rest of the division pushes through. I do have all 56 Div and sub unit WDs. Do you just want a summary of the operations or any particular detail?
     
    Chris C likes this.
  9. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    How about the Queen's Bays (2nd Dragoon Guards) for the month of September? Also, how about 9th Queen's Royal Lancers? The Story of An Armoured Regiment in Battle will cost you a mortgage. Been looking for a while & i cant find a cheap copy.:mad:

    Regards,
    Stu. I will get you a pint, or a bottle of plonk in September if you can get them?
     
  10. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    Now that I finally have time to actually read these I want to give you all a great big thank you!

    I haven't plotted the artillery targets of 70th Med Reg't RA but it should be interesting to do so and also note the mention of a 17cm German gun and "nebels". I knew the Gurkhas were heavily shelled and mortared but I didn't equate the latter to Nebelwerfers!

    And 10 Hussars' war diary shows that they got across the river on the same morning as 43 GLB which was not the impression I had at all, and I'm glad to be corrected of that. The detail in their diary about the points seized and their code names is excellent - not to mention that there were anti-Nazi partisans operating in the area (and far closer to the main line of battle than I'd have ever supposed), or that the Germans had pulled out of Santarcangelo town rather than fight for it, leaving booby traps and mines.

    And the flank formation locations mentioned in the 1KRRC sitrep should be enormously helpful in painting a broader picture too.
     
  11. hutt

    hutt Member

    Here are a couple of pages from 54 Heavy Regiment who seem to have been in the vicinity around those dates as well.
    DSC06198.JPG DSC06199.JPG DSC06200.JPG
     
  12. hutt

    hutt Member

    The really frustrating thing is that the diaries for 1 AGRA for Sept - Oct 44 come up as 'Missing at Transfer'. WO170/892
    Does anyone have any idea exactly what this implies. Are they lost? back at the MOD (or were never received from them)? or could a duplicate copy be held at the Royal Artillery library wherever that is now?
     
  13. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    It does sound like "lost in transit". The RA Archives are now at Larkhill but a lot of files are inaccessible still, I believe. There's a Facebook page and I think a website somewhere but I cannot find that at the moment.
     
  14. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    And thank you for those pages - not entirely use they will help me but I will investigate them!
     
  15. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    So, I plotted a bunch of these points on a map... this is a work in progress and I hope it will be viewable by you fellows. This is the situation at last light on September 23rd based on the 1 KRRC sitrep. I haven't put any of the artillery data in:

    Google Maps

    A few questions
    - "5 Fo[r]resters" is who? Would this be 2/5 (Derbyshire) Battalion of the Sherwood Foresters?
    - 1 KRRC. I am confused as to whether this was a tank or infantry unit as there is a mention of squadrons in the sitrep.

    Given the positions of the flanking units it really would be interesting to confirm if 16 DLI, 2 SLI, and 5 Foresters crossed the river at all on the same night.
     
  16. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    5 Foresters is 5th Battalion Sherwood Foresters. It was renamed from 2/5th in March 1943. It was part of 139 Infantry Brigade.
    1 KRRC was an infantry (motor) battalion, the infantry battalion in 2nd Armoured Brigade.
     
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  17. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    Thanks Gary!

    I didn't realize the map was still private - try the link again?
     
  18. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    This is 16 DLI's WD...looks like 2/5 Leicesters were across the Marecchia first (albeit temporaily). I will see if I can get their WDs on Saturday and see what date they crossed.


    16_DLI_Sep_44_0008.jpg

    16_DLI_Sep_44_0009.jpg
     
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  19. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    The WD entry dates do not match up with the 1st Armoured Division sitrep.
     
  20. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    Yes, you're right... I suppose what must have happened is that 1st Armoured Division was informed of the plan for them to replace the Leicesters and then not informed of the change in plan. It is a little baffling that they state it the way they do.

    Thank you very much, Gary! If you can clear up when the 2/5 Leicesters crossed I will be truly indebted to you!
     

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