4x2 Light Utility Trucks

Hi all

Mainly a question for the old sweats but as anyone experiences of the Light Utility 4x2's in WW2. Mainly i'm interested in the early war period after seeing a photo of an Austin Tilly at Cherbourg.

These vehicles must have been around in some numbers surely but theres few wartime photos...anybody got any they can share or experiences of using them?

Martyn

 

Martyn, try back numbers of Classic Military Vehicle too, they've run a few articles in the last year on restored Tillies.

 

Hi Poop or can I call you Von?

I wouldn't mind seeing the articles on the Tilly's from Wheels and Tracks.

Thanks for the help. I'm trying to tie this post into my 1, 2/6 and 2/7 DWR post in the 1940 forum. I'd like to find proof of Tilly's in France 1940.

Ta

Martyn

 

I spend a lot of time looking for photographs of BEF abandoned vehicles on eBay Germany (and I have German-speaking spy who helps!) They had an obsession with photographing damaged vehicles. I don't think that I've ever seen a Tilly. I'm looking for evidence of the Morris Commercial PU8/4 with the BEF as well but have yet to find it.

I suppose though that out of the 80000 vehicles left behind, only a couple of thousand or so were photographed (and quite often the same ones).

 

Rich

If you post a picture of a Morris Commercial so I know what I'm looking for I'll keep an eye out for one when I'm looking

Smudge

 

Adam

Thanks i'll pick them at work on Monday I used my work email...its better for large files anyway.

RE; the Morris picture above, is that part of an old magazine or in the stuff you've sent?

Ta muchly for the help

Smudge

 

Vehicles aren't my thing really but quite a few 1940 trucks etc in the thread below.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ww2-battlefields-today/26374-dunkirk-70-years.html

 

That post or late war Morris advert has a tantalising suggestion of Tillies at Dunkirk but it doesn't actually say that. It is drumming up trade for Morris Cars and they have therefore used an illustration of the Morris-Commercial vehicle which looked most car-like. The vehicles recovered in 1944 were almost certainly 15cwts in use by the coastal defence units.

By the way Smudge, what's your interest ? modelling or do you have a Tilly ?

There are photos of the PU8/4 in this thread on 'Maple Leaf Up'

ex-Victory Museum Morris-Commercial PU8/4 - MLU FORUM

It is the 4-wheel drive version of the PU8 and most recognisable by the squared-off rather than rounded front mudguards. I personally doubt if any made it to France as production had barely begun but Ron Pier who owns the example photographed would love to find a BEF connection and I'd like to help him (he's a WD motorcycle man and has an Austin Tilly as well).

 

Hi chaps

Adam...my work address is fine ta.

Rich; if I come across anything I'll let you know. My main interest is modelling and I collect and share references for the same. I write a few kit reviews for Tracklink Track-Link and have just entered their Tilly competition. I have helped the lads at the Tilly Register too with a bit of research. I do seem to have caught the Tilly bug though. I will be doing a model of an Austin Tilly at Dunkirk I reckon if one was photographed at Cherbourg and the Germans were driving around in them afterwards some must have been abandoned there?

Smudge

 

I tend to agree with Rich - that light utilities were a post Dunkirk development - but the film industry disagrees, heres a photo from Redcar when the scene was being set for the Dunkirk scenes for the film Attonement

Noel

 

If we're talking Austins, have the Tilly club been able to give you details of the first contract ? They are really not my speciality so I feel that I'm on slightly dodgy ground but I've had a look through the Ordnance Chilwell lists and the earliest contract that I can find is for Contract V3887 - Austin Car, 2 seater, 4x2 model 10HP Utility - Census numbers M4168454 - M4180202.

The only way to date this contract delivery accurately is to check the contract receipt cards which are probably held by the Tank Museum at Bovington.

I can say that these census numbers fall between Norton contract C5612 (completed 20/5/1940) and contract C6127 (commenced 31/5/1940) - It could be of course that Austins had less back log than Nortons. However, I think that it suggests a delivery date of March - June 1940 for the first Tillies.

The front line units lost all their vehicles at Dunkirk and I've just been reading Jack Dienst's 'A Civilian in Uniform' where he refers to 5 Corps Signals receiving new vehicles in May 1940 only to have them taken from them within a few weeks to equip the 2nd BEF prior to Cherbourg. They certainly had vehicles fresh from the production lines.

The only photograph that I have of a C5612 Norton in France is with a unit of 2nd BEF KOSB's just returned to the UK so it might well be that the 2nd BEF had brand new vehicles which had not yet made their way up the BEF supply lines.

There may have been Tillys with the BEF but they would have been few and if they were present, I'd suspect with RASC units around the southern supply depots such as Laval and Le Mans.

Any chance of a link to the Cherbourg Tilly photo ?

 

If I'd known that you had all that info at your fingertips Adam...

There was usually an initial 'Demand' prior to contract date and actual delivery could have occurred prior to the contract date but I'd suspect this was less likely with the first of a new series.

It looks as if Hillman may have been the first. I have to say that in comparison with most of the other well-known manufacturers, the mighty Austin doesn't seem to have been receiving many WD contracts at all around this period (although they may have received fewer but larger orders).

Just an odd thought, without any foundation but RAF contracts fall outside of Ordnance lists and documentation barely exists. The Tilly strikes me as an ideal airfield runabout. Could they have had them earlier ?

 

Hi Guys

The Cherbourg photo is in Tilly Colours by Mike Shackleton of the Tilly Register. They're pretty sure of the location; they appear sceptical about Tilly's at Dunkirk although they have just come across photos ( lots of) of Austin Tourers in 1940 some locations tbc.

You can see the photo of Cherbourg at Blurb.com the publishers (19 pages in all I think) at this link ( bottom of page 8) Tilly Colours | Book Preview and here where I reviewed it Track-Link - Forums

If this is Cherbourg then its a 52nd Division vehicle or part of The Norman Force...3rd Armoured Brigade, 157th Infantry Brigade, 71st Field Regiment R.A?

Smudge

 

If you or your colleagues want some help identifying locations at or around Dunkirk post the pictures-Some of us are familiar with the area and maybe able to spot the odd landmark or building.

Cheers
Andy

Edit:

The pictures are too small even on full screen to see any detail but the one at the harbour/port, with what looks like a cargo crane on the right hand side, is definately not Dunkirk.


Edit Edit:

I read the text with a magnifying glass and see you have written its Cherbourg. I'll get my coat.