4th Royal Marines Armoured Support Group Juno Beach

Discussion in 'Commandos & Royal Marines' started by GEBARBER, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. GEBARBER

    GEBARBER Member

    Evening all, I am new to this forum, A year ago I managed to get my grandfathers (George Ernest Barber) service record and i have a large number of gaps which I am hoping you can help with. 31/01/1944 through 27/07/1977 my grandfather was a member of "2ND RMAS REGT 4TH RMAS BTY". I understand from the landing tables that its either a nan red or white option but I want to try and establish more about his role on d-day and more specifically the location he came ashore and where and when he travelled from here. I do know he ended up at Royal Navy Auxiliary Hospital Barrow Gurney Bristol 27/07/1944. So he was either injured or was shell-shocked from the horrific things he saw. I do recall some stories about the things he witnessed so it was probably shell-shock. If anyone has any photos of this Regiment that would be amazing but from my research to date there seems to be few photos. If anyone is able to point be in the direction of where i may be able to obtain more details i would really appreciate it. I will be off to Juno beach again in May and I cant wait! Thanks in advance Alex.
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi & welcome

    Have you checked out other threads on the site for Juno Beach - Trux's for example is very detailed:
    JUNO BEACH.

    Just type 'Juno Beach' into the search box - always a good place to start

    TD
     
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  3. Hello,

    Welcome to the forum. You did the right thing in obtaining your grandfather's service record!
    In addition to Trux's thread, here's one dedicated to 2 RMAS Regt:
    Royal Marines Armoured Support Regiment (2RMAS) Juno, D-Day

    Do you have any additional information about your grandfather's role during D Day, such as his rank, his troop, the vehicle he was in (if any), his troop, his direct superior(s)? This could help us find out where/when/from which craft he landed.

    You might also want to post clear scans of his service record, because there are many people in this forum who could help you make sense of the many obscure abbreviations they usually contain.

    Some basic info follows.

    From 8 Cdn Inf Bde Gp 'OVERLORD' Operation Order No.13 dated 18 May 44:
    ____________________________________________________________________
    _____2 RMAS Regt
    89._______(a) 4 Bty 2 RMAS Regt is to support 8 Cdn Inf Bde
    Gp and troops have been allotted as under:-
    W Troop_______Right Assault Coy _-_ QOR of C
    X Troop_______Left Assault Coy __-_ QOR of C
    Y Troop_______Right Assault Coy _-_ N Shore R
    Z Troop_______Left Assault Coy __-_ N Shore R

    and 48 (RM) Commando
    (b) On landing from LCT (A) HE and LCT (HE) Centaur
    tanks are to take up positions hull down in the
    water to support landing of the assault battal-
    ions. Indirect fire during advance will be con-
    trolled by Artillery FOOs.
    ____________________________________________________________________

    If we combine the above with the Landing Table plus info from other sources, and knowing which Assault Inf Coy was where, we obtain the following, from right to left:

    NAN WHITE

    LCT(A) 2009 (Serial 1416) – rt sec W Tp } in sp A Coy
    LCT(A) 2283 (Serial 1417) – lt sec W Tp } QOR of C

    LCT(HE) 2285 (Serial 1418) – rt sec X Tp } in sp B Coy
    LCT(HE) 2150 (Serial 1419) – lt sec X Tp } QOR of C

    NAN RED

    LCT(HE) 2234 (Serial 1421) – rt sec Y Tp } in sp A Coy
    LCT(HE) 2306 (Serial 1422) – lt sec Y Tp } N Shore R

    LCT(A) 2455 (Serial 1423) – rt sec Z Tp } in sp B Coy
    LCT(A) 2014 (Serial 1424) – lt sec Z Tp } N Shore R

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  4. GEBARBER

    GEBARBER Member

    Thanks so much for your help on this and apologies for only just responding. I have been trying to find what I can to establish more about my grandfathers role etc. This is what I can tell you.

    - April 1943 assigned to 1st Anti Tank Battery (c troop) Royal Marines - Capt A.H.T Buckley - Plymouth Division - I now have a troop photo which is great!
    - Sept 1943 assigned to 3 SC Bty (unsure what that is?)
    - Jan 1944 RM SC REGT 3RD RM SC BTY - Conduct sheet indicates Commanding officer major h.s.stephens (major)?
    - 31/01/1944 through July 1944 - 2ND RMAS REGT 4TH RMAS BTY - Conduct sheet entry Commanding officer major G.F.Gowland
    - March 1944 HMS Turtle for Firing Cree (?)
    - 21/06/1944 he Returned to R.M.Armd.SP.GP Cosham
    - Oct 1944 29BN - Gowland remains his commanding officer
    - 1945-46 34 ASR until discharge. I have a picture of him on a tank during this period with some unknown individuals.


    Obviously the 4th RMAS BTY section in he most important part from a D-Day perspective. Obviously its either Nan Red or White but I have no idea what troop. I would be great to id the tank, the troop and H Hour through to his return.

    I am unsure as to his rank as the war record just says MNE?

    Speaking to my dad indicates that he may have been responsible for firing the tanks gun this may explain his combined ops badge that had 2 crossed guns which i think is the marksman badge (was this awarded to tank personnel?).......which tank I don't know but I would love to find out as it must be either a Centaur or a Sherman as these were the only 2 tanks in operation on that beach.

    Apparently he used to moan about the depth of the water as they came off, he also recalled watching a brave black Canadian man storming a gun / pillbox on the beach. Sadly he watched him die as he was hit in the stomach by a number of rounds. That seemed to stay with him over everything else he witnessed. He also managed to shoot his commanding officer in the arm with the tanks machine gun whilst trying to clear a jammed round. Sorry little stories which mean a lot to me and add to the events that built a story about a strong man that is sadly not here to ask questions of. Its always after the event you wish you had asked more as he rarely spoke of anything to do with the war and as a boy I was fascinated. Now I must rely on you good people to assist with telling his story.

    Thanks again

    Alex
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Alex

    I would as Michel mentions above, post clear copies of his service records. It has been found from past experience that, the details within the records really need to be read as written and in context.

    Thanks
    TD
     
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  6. GEBARBER

    GEBARBER Member

  7. GEBARBER

    GEBARBER Member

    thanks again.... Hopefully that worked and you can read these.
     
  8. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    The “3 SC” is 3 Support Craft Battery.

    Yes, it is Major H.S. Stephens, RM.

    Regards

    Danny
     
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  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Rank MNE = Marine

    TD

    image number 9 is difficult to read, is it possible to re scan - can you also upload an image of the badge with crossed guns? - thanks
     
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  10. GEBARBER

    GEBARBER Member

    20180430_071716.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi

    So badges are:
    Combined Operations - combined operations badge - Google Search

    Crossed Rifles - I would assume are some level of marksmanship -
    Crossed Rifles On Tombstone Shape (Marksman) Gold On Navy Blue Bullion wire-embroidered Naval Branch,
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the better copy, altough its better to read its still very difficult to understand - seems he spent most of July & Aug 1944 on leave or in Hospital, he also appears to have been AWOL in May & Aug as well.

    TD
     
  12. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Gunner Tours

    His unit did not return to the UK until 21st June. After D Day they were used as extra field artillery or armour - the (only) British Sturmgeschutz. Other places to have seen shocking scenes might have been Rots.

    He seems to have picked up punishments on two occasions for Absence With Out Leave. (AWOL). While that may have been normal for Australians, it isnlt for the British Army or Navy. Were there family problems or was he a naughty boy?
     
  13. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    Ref the 12th March to 19th March - Firing Course(?) - HMS Turtle entry. All of the 4th Battery were at HMS Turtle for this period of time for “wetshod training”. Which at that stage probably covered embarking onto the LCT(A), gun drills onboard and using the gunnery range at Studland Bay.

    The marksman’s badge was worn on the lower left arm. The red on blue version was worn on the “Blues” uniform.

    The Combined Operations badge was worn on the upper arms. They came in facing pairs. Worn on Battle Dress and Blues uniforms.

    Regards

    Danny

    1  badges.jpg
     
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