45 LAA 142 Bty North Africa

I have been following the discussion on LAA regiments. My query relates to 45 LAA Regt., 142 Bty in which my father served, died 7 Sep 1943 and is buried in Enfidaville cemetry.
I got his record originally in 2000 and for my money received a type written sheet. I applied again last year and and paid for copies of his records which did not give any extra info.
He was posted to 45 LAA. 12/4/41 after training with 226 LAA Training Regt., then intered posted to 142 LAA Bty 12/4/41 and served overseas North Africa 1/11/40 to his death.
In the book "The Bloody Road to Tunis" the order of battle is given but the regt. or bty. is not listed. The order for battle for Sicily which is on line does not mention the regt. being involved either( my grandparents put Sicily after his name in the Book of remenbrance in their local church). The CWGC lists 142 Bty. 45Regt. LAA Regt.R.A.
I hope someone can can give the answer why the Regt., is not mentioned or was it incorporated into another Regt.??
Tomed1

 

Hi Tom and welcome to the forum. I'm sure some RA chaps will be able to help.

Regards
Andy

 

Hi Tom
45 LAA Regt RA - from the 1st Army ORBAT
1st ARMY

5th CORPS

Royal Artillery
23rd ,75th, 102nd ,140th 166th, 183rd Field Regiments
4th ,5th 58th 74th Medium Regiments
5th ,8th Survey Regiments
87th 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment
54th, 56th Heavy Regiments
58th ,80th Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiments
11th ,17th 45th 105th ,117th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiments

Tom, It seems RA Regts are always an afterthought in book Regt listings. If you think LAA listings are bad you should try Medium + Heavy Regts!
Another reason is because their classed and listed as CORPS Artillery and not DIVISIONAL, so they do'nt appear in the Divisional Histories.
Cheers
Rob

 

Hi Tom

There are war diaries at the National Archives Kew for the Regiment and the battery for the dates you want to look at, so they did exist and were not incorporated into another or disbanded.

These are:-

WO169/9989 - July - Dec 1943 (45 LAA)
WO169/10075 - Sept to Dec 1943 ( 142 LAA Battery)

These references indicate they were in North Africa at the time.

Regards - Robert

 

welcome to the forum.
see here for some background info
>>> RA 1939-45 45 LAA

The info listed on that site appears incorrect for 1944 as both 45 LAA/142 Battery were in Italy from January to October 1944, based on War Diaries listed at Kew. After that, I can't find anything.

 

Tom

Is this your Father?

EDWARDS, FRANCIS WALTER
Gunner
Royal Artillery
142 Bty., 45 Lt. A.A. Regt.
Age:32
Date of Death:07/09/1943
Service No:1734218
Additional information:Son of William James Edwards and Esther Hannah Edwards; husband of Catherine Edwards, of Ballylongford, Co. Kerry, Irish Republic.
Grave/Memorial Reference:II. E. 32.
Cemetery:ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY

 

Hi Tom

Have you tried the Royal Artillery Museum - Firepower
website is

The Royal Artillery Museum - Firepower - Royal Arsenal in Woolwich - Homepage

My Dad was in the 13 LAA and I was able to get a summary of his regiment from them- you have to pay- see on the site- look under contact
It was good to see where the regiment went and some of what they did.

regards

Robert

 

Tom

A belated welcome aboard and I'm glad to see that you are being well treated by other forum members.

Good luck !

Ron

 

My apologies, I tried last evening to reply to the posts using quick reply but I was "told" I can't do that. My thanks for your time and useful info. May I ask Bob where did you get your ORBAT from, as I said the first time I have ever seen an Order of Battle for 1st Army was in the book "The Bloody Road to Tunis". By the way that book is ever so cheap from Naval & Military Press. Interesting to see that the Regt. was also involved in Sicily, so my grand parents were probably correct in putting Sicily after his name. Yes ramacal those details from CWGC are indeed those of my father. It certainly looks like a trip to Kew again, I fail to see why my previous searches in the catalogue didn't bring up the details on the diaries, other than Kew I don't suppose there are any lists of personnel who went to Sicily. My father died from General Peritonitis (burst appendix), I was told in the past that they couldn't get him to hospital in time. If he was in Sicily then he would have been casevacted back to Tunisa, time being crucial,it is feasible that he died before he got to a field hospital.
Tom.

 

Hello Tom. I had hoped to have posted earlier but circumstances prevented me. Anyway I have a copy of Brig. Routledge's 'History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, Anti-Aircraft Artillery 1914-55'
Unfortunately your late fathers battery is not specifically listed, quite common for Corps troops. Corps troops do not seem to get the recognition they deserve as they were, on the whole, engaged in base and LofC defence. His regiment, however is.
The first entry for 45th LAA Regiment is their landing in Algeria in the early part of November 1942 after sailing from the Clyde. After a cease fire was negotiated with the French in and around Algiers on the 9th. 78th Division began the move east by 5th Corps with a series of infantry and commando groups. 52nd AA Brigade, under Brigadier J.G.S. Ross, now went ashore as planned while Brigadier Parham sought out the French air defence commander in Algiers and secured agreement that the French would pass on raid alerts and would engage Axis attacks alongside the Allies.
Parts of 22nd and 52nd AA Brigades now faced the long march eastwards, leaving three HAA batteries, 58th and 76th HAA Regiments, and three from 17th LAA, to unload their equipment and take up positions round Algiers harbour and the two airfields. Another group went on by sea; 45th LAA Regiment, with one battery from 72nd HAA, sailed for Bougie that day. It was planned to land two LAA troops on the beaches near Djidjelli, in the interests of speed, but sea conditions defeated this and the port had to be used.


We next meet the regiment in the early part of 1943 in Tunisia. The early months of 1943 were marked by confused and bitter fighting as 5th Corps made repeated attempts to break out, from the ridges and valleys of the Tunisian massif through the Medjerda gap. It was counter-attacked, in turn by strong German defence forces. A very large number of individual actions was fought in rough conditions, by AA batteries and isolated troops during the period: the steep slopes denied tank movement, the valleys were dangerous bottlenecks, inviting air attack. Deployment off a road, or hard surfaced track, was limited by soft ground so much that, in 45th LAA Regiment, the order was given that no 40mm gun should be distanced from hard going by more than the length of it's tractor's winch rope.

They next appear in a series of AA Orders of battle for Operation Torch
First dated mid-January 1943 45th LAA Regiment are listed as 5th Corps(forward area)

the next dated mid-March 1943 they are listed as AA for 19th Corps

the final OoB for op. Torch, final phase May 1943 sees the 45th as part of 52nd AA Brigade in Tunis.

There is no mention of the regiments activities on Sicily. Their final appearance in the history is in Italy.

 

Many thanks Bodston on those wonderful facts on the regt. I am slowing getting the answers to my father's time in North Africa. I have made contact with the RA Museum so I await to see if they can shed any light on Sicily and I am hoping to get " Med & Middle East Vol V" thro' the inter library scheme. It was very kind of you putting all those facts into your reply.
Tom.

 

Rob thank you for the source of your ORBAT.
Tom.

 

I have received areply from Woolich, here are their holdings for 45.LAA.
War Diaries:RAHT/800. 45 LAA Regt.RA Aug 1940 to Jun 1942
Oct 1942 to Apr 1944
(Incl. regimental\nominal Roll) May 1941
(Incl. 135 LAA Bty. RA) Sep 1939 to Mar 1941
Nov 1942 to Dec 1942
Feb 1943
May 1943 to Apr 1944
(Incl.1:50,000 map of Algeria) May 1942
(Incl. 142 LAA Bty.RA) Nov1939 to Mar 1941
Dec 1942 to Jan 1943
Mar 1943 to Nov 1943
Jan 1944 to Feb 1944
Apr 1944
(Inc. 265 LAA Bty.RA) Nov 1941 to Mar 42
May 1942 to Jul 1942
Dec 1942 to Apr 44

 

I had to cease my last post, computer took over and would not edit as it should be. I hope you are able to follow. Also held:

2176 Carmen,Gnr.william RA diary of his service with 265 LAA Bty. 45 LAA Regt. feb 1943 to May 1945.

2442 Jackson,Cpl. Clarence 1624761 ACC typescript memoir detailing training at RAF Shawbury as a cook for 142 Bty.45 Regt in North Africa (31 Oct 1942 to Jan 1944) incl.supporting the Free French and as AA Defences of Tunis, transferring to 265 Bty. 45 Regt.LAA and landing in Italy (May 1944 to Jun 1946) serving in Salerno,attending 103 General hospital in Jun 1944, acting as cook at POW camp in Nov 1944 until transfer to 22 LAA Regt. at Porta Potenza and further POW duties in Jan 1945, moved to General Transport Company cookhouse in Torrette Jul 1945 Demobbed Jun 1946 24 pages.

I hope that maybe of assistance to someone.
Tom.

 

I have received areply from Woolich, here are their holdings for 45.LAA.
War Diaries:RAHT/800. 45 LAA Regt.RA Aug 1940 to Jun 1942
Oct 1942 to Apr 1944
(Incl. regimental\nominal Roll) May 1941
(Incl. 135 LAA Bty. RA) Sep 1939 to Mar 1941
Nov 1942 to Dec 1942
Feb 1943
May 1943 to Apr 1944
(Incl.1:50,000 map of Algeria) May 1942
(Incl. 142 LAA Bty.RA) Nov1939 to Mar 1941
Dec 1942 to Jan 1943
Mar 1943 to Nov 1943
Jan 1944 to Feb 1944
Apr 1944
(Inc. 265 LAA Bty.RA) Nov 1941 to Mar 42
May 1942 to Jul 1942
Dec 1942 to Apr 44

Tom

How did you apply to Woolwich, by phone, email or letter and did they charge you anything to lookup and let you know what they were holding.

I'm interested in 107 Bty 27 LAA Regt and have found a lot at Kew but interested to see if anything else is held at Woolwich.

Thanks

Chris

 

Hello Chris, I made contact by e-mail research@firepower.org.uk and I asked if they were holding any info. on the Regiment and Battery. Those are the holdings referring to my question so if you e-mail reference your own research, please state you are already aware of the answer to me so their work will not be duplicated.
There was no charge for my initial query but donations are always welcome, so I am making my donation. I also intend to make a day out to Woolwich in the New Year to read thro' those various documents and Personal Papers as I feel sure there is much to be learned.
If you wish Chris you can send me a PM (apparently as a "new one" I can't send you one and I will send a copy of the holdings). My computer writing in Word sometimes takes control, hence the mess up with the format.
One other notable point....the research that was done in the past by the library for £15 per hour is no longer available, like everywhere no staff. the library is more of an advice centre now.
Tom. (ex Wilts)

 

I have now received the Regt history from 01/01/1941 to its disbandment and also the 142 Bty history for all of Sept 1943.

On 14 Aug Regt RHQ moved from Sidi Bou Said to Avenue De Lesseps, Tunis. The CO visited 142 Bty on 17 Aug at Sousse and live AA practice was held at Tunis at the end of Aug. At 1 Sep providing LAA defence of Sousse under command of 31 (U.S) A.A.BDE. Bty strenght was 8 Offrs. and 258 O.Rs. They were at Sousse all of Sept, orders received on 29 Sep from 31 (U.S) A.A.Bde that A.A. defences of Sousse will be withdrawn from 0900 A hrs on 1 Oct 1943. Strength of Bty on 30 Sept 8 Offrs. and 254 O.Rs. I am sure from above that my father who died on 7 Sep was not in Sicily and his death is included in the loss of the 4 O.Rs. of the Bty strength.

 

My father enlisted 12 Dec 1940 and was posted to 226 LAA Training Regt.R.A on 13 Dec and remained there until 12 Apr 1943. I have been told that this Regt was based in Conway,North Wales. Does anyone know where the Regt was actually sited.
Tom.

 

Hi Tomed1, I have only just read your post relating to your father's involvement with the 45th LAA 142 bty. My uncle too was a member of the 45th LAA 142bty. He survived the Tunisian campaign and went onto Italy and Austria where he died as a result of a vehicle accident on the 13th June 1945.
I'm very fortunate to have been given his war diaries which have given me a great deal of knowledge of the movements of the regiment. Ihave looked at the date of your father's death but unfortunately there is nothing on it as he was confined to the sick bed with a suspected dislocated neck as a result of someone landing on his head whilst playing in the sea at Sousse!
In his diaries he has listed all of the locations he visited during his time in Tunisia and Italy, and although the Italian campaign would have no relevance to you and your research I can say that there is no reference at all to the Sicily connection.
If you find my contribution of some help to you , and if I can help you any more please ask, and if I can help I will, regards Gary Phillips