4469121 Pte Herbert BATEMAN, Durham Light Infantry: POW

Discussion in 'Durham Light Infantry' started by Neil Morrison, May 5, 2020.

  1. Neil Morrison

    Neil Morrison New Member

    Hi all, I'm trying to locate family of the late Herbert Bateman DLI who I believe was held prisoner with my late father in Austria. I understand he had a son Alan and a daughter Lynn whom I would love to contact.
    Thanks Neil
     
  2. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    This confirms he was at a pow camp in Austria.

    Name:
    H Bateman
    Rank: Private
    Army Number: 4469121
    Regiment: Durham Light Infantry
    POW Number: 155041
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: XVII-A
    Camp Location: Kaisersteinbruch, Austria
    Record Office: Infantry and Army Educational Corps Record Office, York
    Record Office Number: 20

    From ancestry record: UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945

    Some history of Stalag XVII- A
    History of STALAG XVII A
     
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  3. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    A little more on him here, but nothing about his marriage or post war.

    Bateman, Pte Herbert, 4469121, DLI. Enlisted 4 ITC, Brancepeth, 12/41. Bricklayer, of 22 High St, Carrville, Durham. Captured 2/3/43, Sedjenane. PG 66, PG 53, Italy; Stalag 7A, 17A Germany. Stalag 398 Pupping, Austria, Arb Kdo C2735/L, Vichtenstein 22/12/43 to 6/5/45, farm work. POW No 155041
    Circa 4469100--4469410 DLI Numbers

    Care: seems to have the same Pow number as Bdr F Archer stalag 8 -A
    circa 155000 stalag numbers

    Might he have belonged to the DLI Regimental Association.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  4. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    Using the above info I have found a close relation of Herbert on an ancestry online tree & sent them a message.

    Herbert married in Durham in 1947, but sadly passed away in 1989.
     
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  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Neil,

    Pte Herbert Bateman was undoubtedly with the 16th Bn Durham Light Infantry, who were fighting at Sedjenane on the date he was taken PoW. They were part of the 46th Infantry Division, in the 1st Army.

    You should consider contacting forum member ‘Mr Jinks’, as he is in touch with ex-forum member, ‘Jim’, whose passion/hobby is remembering DLI soldiers of the WWII era. Jim is a wealth of knowledge on those KIA and taken PoW.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  6. Korps Steiner

    Korps Steiner Senior Member

    22 High Street , Carrville still exists .
     
  7. Neil Morrison

    Neil Morrison New Member

    Wow! Thank you so much for your prompt and helpful responses. I am very grateful. I will attempt to contact 'Mr Jinks' as suggested and hope to hear from the close relative of Herberts. The information I have matches what you have given me.
    My father was for some time held in a small village with only approx 20 other men doing forestry work so I'm hopeful of making some kind of link. I visited the village and spent time there in 1982.
    Again, I thank you for your assistance.
     
  8. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    Neil now has Alan Bateman's email address.
     
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  9. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hello , On Steves recommendation I have spoken with Jim (Verrieres) who runs the DLI 20-46 site he tells me he has already spoken with Neil last month thats where the original detail came from ?
    Kyle
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  10. Cpl Hadaway

    Cpl Hadaway Member

    Interesting thread, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the archive source of the address and POW details summary for Pte Bateman, which were published several years ago on Tom Tunney's 16 DLI website

    The 16th Battalion DLI 1940-46 Homepage

    (a very old site using ancient web design software, so click again if it doesn't come up first time)

    These details were transcribed from Bateman's 1945 Returned POW questionnaire. These questionnaires are held at the National Archives at Kew, though not all returning POWs filled them--and they are not currently available for download online .

    There are quite a few of these summarised within the consecutive Army numbers listings, 'Circa 4469100-4469400 Consecutive DLI Army Numbers' on the 16 DLI site:

    Circa 4469100--4469410 DLI Numbers

    for men of the 16th DLI in the same Brancepeth Camp (4 ITC) training draft as Bateman (called up 12/41) who were captured at Sedjenane, Tunisia in Feb-March 1943. Examples near to Bateman's Army number include:

    Brown, Pte Wesley, 4469134, 16 DLI.
    Reported missing, North Africa, 27/2/43-1/3/43.
    Enlisted 4 ITC, Brancepeth, 11/12/41. Bricklayer, of 43 Rock St, Middlesbrough.
    PG 66 Italy, 8/3/43 to 21/6/43; PG 53 21/6/43 to 22/9/43; Stalag 7A 15/10/43 to 5/11/43; Stalag 17A 5/11/43 to 4/4/45. POW No 154737.

    Byrne, L/Cpl Joseph, 4469143, 16 DLI.
    Reported missing, North Africa, 27/2/-1/3/43.
    Enlisted 4 ITC, Brancepeth, 11/12/41. Bricklayer. Of Muriel St, South Moor, Stanley, Co Durham.
    Camp PG 98 Sicily 18/3/43 to 14/4/43; PG 53 14/4/43 to 9/43. Stalag 7A 9/43 to 11/43; Stalag 17A 11/43 to 30/4/45. Work camp A/320 Pitten, paper mill, 26/11/43 to 30/4/45. Escaped 30/3/45 and reached Russian troops on 1/4/45, with Pte Bexton (POW No 153196), Sapper G Craighead (153249) and Pte W Brett (153207). German POW Number 153179.

    Edwards, Pte Ernest, 4469179, 16 DLI.
    Reported missing, North Africa, 27/2/-1/3/43.
    B Company, 16 DLI, see 1942 group photo:
    B Coy 1942
    Enlisted 4 ITC, Brancepeth, 12/41. Bricklayer, of 8 Elsdon St, Stockton on Tees.
    PG 66 17/3/43 to 8/6/43; PG 53 from 10/6/43 to 20/9/43; 7A from 22/9/43 to 2/11/43; 17A from 4/11/43 to 29/11/43; 'Rohbau' work camp, building work, 29/11/43 to 1/4/45. Liberated by Russians on 3/4/45 after escaping from march from Kaisersteinbruck to Vienna with rest of working party. POW No 153698.

    This man looks to be a good candidate to be in the same or a similar work camp as your father:

    Dawson, Pte John, 4469165, 16 DLI.
    Reported missing, North Africa, 27/2/-1/3/43.
    Enlisted 4 ITC, Brancepeth, 12/41. Bricklayer, of Ambler House, Victoria Rd, Washington, Co Durham.
    Captured with 16 DLI Sedjenane, Tunisia, 2/3/43. PG 66 3/43 to 6/43; PG 53 6/43 to 9/43; Stalag 7A 9/43 to 11/43; Stalag 17A 11/43 to 12/43; Stalag 398 12/43 to 5/45, forestry work. POW No 155010.

    And this man's POW path seems similar, too:

    Shutt, Pte Sydney 4465664, 16 DLI.
    Reported missing, North Africa, 27/2/43-1/3/43.
    From Thornley Colliery, Co Durham.
    Enlisted 24/7/40 direct to 16 DLI, Edinburgh. Captured Sedjenane 2/3/43. B Company. Camps 66, 53 Italy, Stalags 7A, 17A and 398 Germany.
    POW Number 154689.
    Listed as 'Shutts' in POW lists.
    Interviewed by IWM:
    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80017284

    You don't mention the name or regiment of your father, but the chances are his POW number will be quite close to that of Bateman and, if not, very close or adjacent to his other pals in the work camp.

    Take another look at the consecutive POW numbers page for Bateman on the 16 DLI site.

    circa 155000 stalag numbers

    look for those held at Stalag 398 (which was the admin hub for the various outlying work camps) and the odd name might fit with what your father may have told you about those times.

    These POWs came up from Italy to Germany in the autumn of 1943 and typically stayed close to their 'mucker', the man they shared their Red Cross parcels with, all the way through to their German work camp. For Bateman, this could have been your father, another friend from the Italian camps or a fellow DLI POW.

    When the National Archives re-opens after this virus crisis your first priority should be to get your father's POW questionnaire. Most have only basic dates and address information, like Bateman's, but some include details of help provided by locals, escaping and names of fellow escapers (particularly during the chaos and 'long marches' of the last days of the Reich, see a couple of those with such details in the examples above).

    And it's also likely that the other 18 men in the forestry work camp are somewhere close in this POW numbers sequence, too. So, if you want to move their collective POW story forward the best way would be to establish exactly who these other men were and research their POW questionnaire forms at the National Archives.

    By the way, if you're in touch with Pte Bateman's son, you might like to suggest he takes a like at these partially captioned group photos from 1942 on the 16th DLI site:

    B Company 16 DLI 1942:

    B Coy 1942

    D Company 16 DLI 1942:

    D Coy 1942

    Mortar Platoon, HQ Coy, 16 DLI, 1942:

    Sgt John Cook ‘Jack’ Henderson ( 4464771) and the 16th Battalion DLI Mortar Platoon, HQ Company, Rye, Sussex, late 1942

    And there's also an informal group of some C Company men in 1942:

    Pte Percy Ord, Letters and Documents

    There's about a two in five chance he may spot his father as one of the unplace faces on one of these photos. Formal group photographs of A Company, C Company and the various HQ platoons were also taken at this time, by the firm of Lambert and Weston of Folkstone, but seem to have disappeared without trace (No, folks, they don't have them in the DLI/Durham Records Office archives in Durham).

    1942 formal photographs of the Battalion NCOs

    16 DLI Sergeants 1942

    and of the Officers (that one the DLI Archives do have) also feature on Tom Tunney's 16 DLI site,

    16th DLI Officers 1942 Group Photo

    though these are obviously of much less relevance to your interest in Bateman, but may be of interest to other readers.

    Hope this helps.

    Cpl H.
     
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