4343638 Private Ronald Tidy, 1st East Yorks died 24/7/40

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by AB64, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    Looking for any info on Private Tidy - I believe 1st East Yorks were training in the Far East at this point so guess it was some kind of training accident - casualty returns have him as "Missing believed drowned" then later "died", he is commemorated on the Brookwood memorial so no grave, I wonder if he was lost on a river crossing exercise (although I am starting to guess). War Diaries and Missing Men files are probably the next step but thought I'd ask in case anyone has any thoughts (or even already has these files).

    Thanks

    Alistair
     
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  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Panel from my Brookwood collection

    upload_2019-1-6_21-15-2.png

    Private TIDY, RONALD
    Service Number 4343638

    Died 24/07/1940

    Aged 22

    1st Bn.
    East Yorkshire Regiment
    Cemetery/memorial reference: Panel 10. Column 2.
     
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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    For Info

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Ronald Tidy
    Given Initials: R
    Rank: Private
    Death Date: 24 Jul 1940
    Number: 4343638
    Birth Place: Portsmouth
    Residence: Hull
    Regiment at Enlistment: East Yorkshire Regiment (Duke of York's Own)
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: India
    Regiment at Death: East Yorkshire Regiment (Duke of York's Own)
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    Looks like WD's may be the way to go

    TD

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56077998
     
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  4. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Hi and welcome. If you're a close relative then you can apply for his Service Records, which might tell you more - and Pals here can explain acronyms, abbreviations, postings etc.
    Your Ronald Tidy is shown as aged 22, with no Next of Kin details.
    There was a Ronald B Tidy born in Portsmouth area 2nd Qtr 1919, so 21 in July 1940.
    He was the only death recorded for any East Yorkshire Battalion.

    The UK Army Roll of Honour shows
    Name: Ronald Tidy. Rank: Private. Death Date: 24 Jul 1940. Number: 4343638. Birth Place: Portsmouth. Residence: Hull
    Regiment at Enlistment: East Yorkshire Regiment (Duke of York's Own)
    Theatre of War: India. Regiment at Death: East Yorkshire Regiment (Duke of York's Own)
    The BROOKWOOD 1939-1945 MEMORIAL commemorates nearly 3,500 men and women of the land forces of the Commonwealth who died during the Second World War and have no known grave, the circumstances of their death being such that they could not appropriately be commemorated on any of the campaign memorials in the various theatres of war. They died in the campaign in Norway in 1940, or in the various raids on enemy occupied territory in Europe such as Dieppe and St Nazaire. Others were special agents who died as prisoners or while working with Allied underground movements. Some died at sea, in hospital ships and troop transports, in waters not associated with the major campaigns, and a few were killed in flying accidents or in aerial combat.

    On 24 July 1940 the liner "Meknes" carrying 1,300 French Naval officers and men back to Vichy occupied France was torpedoed by the E boat S27 with the loss of around 400 lives, but I can't see how your Ronald would have been aboard unless "escorting" them, but I'd expect Naval personnel or Royal Marines to have been more likely.
    As the RoH states "India" then that may fit with him being with the rest of the 1st Battalion in training in India, before Pearl Harbor.....

    EDIT: Curses! TD beat me - again!
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Also note that AB64 is a long standing member so knows the ins and outs of service record acquisition, or as suggested maybe the WD's have something mentioning training accident or similar

    TD
     
  6. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I know about service records but so far have only ordered 1 - at the moment I probably have the best part of 100 records I'd like to order (Private Tidy's is now part of that list) but its not going to happen, WD's and Missing Men I'll probably do as easy and fairly cheap. Just trying my luck as I know the members on here have lots of nuggets of info.

    Cheers for all the replies so far

    Alistair
     
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  7. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

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  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD


    Clarification required for anyone who stumbles onto this thread:
    Full details are available to general enquirers under the MOD's 25 yr rule, ie any WW2 fatality by any unrelated applicant.
    Partial details are still available without consent of next of kin if death of service personnel occurred less than 25 yrs from date of application.
    Request records of deceased service personnel



    Alistair - perhaps Chris Harley might have some info. He was researching names on that memorial - for graves which might not have been correctly recorded.
    Brookwood Memorial
     
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  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    As previously noted, there is a Ronald B Tidy birth registered Q2 1919 in Portsmouth, mother's maiden name Devine.

    The letter from the War Office (in other post) is addressed to Mrs E A Middleton of 43 Conhampton Road, Bournemouth, the letter suggests she is Ronald Tidy's sister.

    Eleanor A Tidy married Arthur R Middleton Q3 1925 in Portsmouth.
    Eleanor Annie Tidy birth registered Q1 1899 Portsea, mother's maiden name Devine.
    Eleanor A Middleton, dob 19 Dec 1898, is still living at 43 Corhampton Road, Bournemouth in 1939.

    Joseph Tidy (20) married Annie Devine (18) on 12 June 1897 at St George's Church, Portsea. Annie Tidy (31), Eleanor Annie Tidy (12), Lilian Mary Tidy (8), Joseph Tidy (4) + Annie's mother are living together in 1911. Joseph senior was not there but his marriage certificate and the 1901 census states he was a 'stoker'. I presume at sea in 1911, he may have died in 1937.

    There are two possible entries in the British Armed Forces War Deaths:

    GRO War Deaths (Army - Other Ranks 1939 - 1948)
    Tidy, Ronald Pte 4343638 E Yorks R, Year 1940, Volume 1, Page 303, and

    GRO Army Death Indexes, Army Returns, Deaths 1941 - 1945
    Tidy, Ronald B, age 22, Station recorded as Attock, year 1941, Page 84.

    The first Casualty List entry 'Missing Believed Drowned' is 19 Aug 1940, the second 'Died' is 12 Aug 1941 - I assume this accounts for the two entries. There is an Attock in India and I can find no details of an R Tidy in 1941 on the CWGC. I wonder if this is a date recorded and not necessarily a year of death.

    There is no R Tidy with a birth registered in Q2 1918, could his year of birth in his paybook be wrong or, as 1918 was during WW1, was his birth registered a year late. Q2 1919 would still cover a birth on 3rd May.

    Afraid this doesn't help you establish any cause of death, but does give some info on his background, albeit confusing.
     
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  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Parents deaths:
    Tidy.jpg
     
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