I am trying to dicover what happened to an airman who was lost with 40 Squadron on the 7th of September 1944. I have done a bit of spade work on the squadron and discovered that they were operating Wellington and Liberator aircraft at the time and were based at Foggia Main in Italy. Also that they apparently operated both Liberators and Wellingtons at the time (which seemed unusual) Using Geoff's search engine I found the following crew from the squadron for that date on CWGC Sergeant Victor Stanley James Belt Pilot Officer Alfred John Quin (only commissioned the previous month) Sergeant John Maxwell Dobson Sergeant Thomas Morris. Four men doesn't seem enough for either aircraft type so I assume that other members of the crew might have escaped the aircraft. I also have a note in Quin's school magazine from that period which says that his aircraft "was lost off the North East Italian coast" Would anyone be able to point me in where to look next? Many thanks as always John
Four men doesn't seem enough for either aircraft type so I assume that other members of the crew might have escaped the aircraft. You can add 423383 Flying Officer Guy Parker Roberts, Royal Australian Air Force to your list. For some reason, the CWGC doesn't add squadrons to their data but Roberts is buried in the same group grave at Bologna: CWGC :: Casualty Details ROBERTS, GUY PARKER Initials: G P Nationality: Australian Rank: Flying Officer Regiment/Service: Royal Australian Air Force Age: 21 Date of Death: 07/09/1944 Service No:423383 Additional information: Son of Percy Lawson and Mabel Roberts, of Sydney, New South Wales. Australia. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave I, A, 8. Cemetery: BOLOGNA WAR CEMETERY National Archives of Australia site says the aircraft was Wellington LN797. Hoping this helps.
Hi John, As the pilot was an Australian (RAAF) I have a little info. RAAF FATALITIES IN SECOND WORLD WAR AMONG RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT IN ROYAL AIR FORCE SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS 423383 Flying Officer ROBERTS, Guy Parker Source: AWM 237 (65) NAA : A705, 166/36/354 Commonwealth War Graves records Aircraft Type: Wellington Serial number: LN 797 Radio call sign: Unit: ATTD 40 SQN RAF Summary: Wellington LN797 took off from Foggia Main Landing ground at 1919 hours on the night of 6/7th September 1944 to bomb Bologna marshalling yards, Italy. Nothing was heard from the aircraft after take off and it failed to return to base. Other crews returning from the mission reported seeing yellow lights in the sea in position 42.55N 14.39E, and a ship was observed steaming towards the scene. Crew: RAAF 423383 FO Roberts, G P Captain (Pilot) RAF Sgt J M Dobson, (Navigator) RAF Sgt T Morris, (Wireless Operator Air) RAF FO Quin, A J (Air Bomber) RAF Sgt V S J Belt, (Air Gunner) All the crew lost their lives and they are buried in the Bologna War Cemetery, Italy. Cheers Geoff
According to my sources the aircraft involved in the 40 Squadron loss of 6/7 September was Wellington X LN753 'P' not LN797 The crew were as follows..... F/O. G P. Roberts RAAF + Sgt. J M. Dobson + Sgt. T. Morris + P/O. A J. Quin + Sgt. V S J. Belt + Short history of LN753 - 311 Squadron / FTU /3 Overseas Aircraft Delivery Unit / 40 Squadron. Missing Bologna 7 September 1944 Short history of LN797 - 311 Squadron FTU / 3 Overseas Aircraft Delivery Unit / 150 Squadron. Struck off Charge 26 April 1945 Sources.... 'Sweeping The Skies' A History of No.40 Squadron RFC and RAF 1916 -56 - D. Gunby 'RAF Serials LA100 - LZ999' - J J. Halley
The aircraft involved in the 40 Squadron loss of 6/7 September was Wellington X LN753 'P' not LN797 You may want to advise both the AWM and the NAA about the incorrect serial number of the Wellington, as well as your source, so they can amend their records.
Thank you again. The detail this forum seems to be able to lay its hands on is incredible. Really appreciate such a comprehensive reply and good to add the missing crew member Many thanks John
You may want to advise both the AWM and the NAA about the incorrect serial number of the Wellington, as well as your source, so they can amend their records. Have edited my post not to include such a sweeping statement, it would be interesting to see who has made the mistake.
Hi all - the information provided by Spidge is hosted on the AWM website and represents the personal work of Alan Storr. Alan has researched a large number (around 7000) of RAAF deaths from WW2 as a personal project. From my observations there are a few errors here and there, but the info is invaluable due to his ability to access the files directly. I would rate the work at nearly 99% accurate, and will be pleased if my research (into fewer fatalities) manages the same. A lot of those errors are typos, a wrong digit in a service number for example - or an incorrect tail number. Those errors are quite often straight from the files themselves. I don't bother much with advising anyone about them, as the records on the AWM site are in pdf format and represent personal research. cheers Dave Author : Alan Storr Alan was born in Melbourne Australia in 1921. He joined the RAAF in October 1941 and served in the Pacific theatre of war. He was an Observer and did a tour of operations with No 7 Squadron RAAF (Beauforts), and later was Flight Navigation Officer of No 201 Flight RAAF (Liberators). He was discharged Flight Lieutenant in February 1946. He has spent most of his Public Service working life in Canberra – first arriving in the National Capital in 1938. He held senior positions in the Department of Air (First Assistant Secretary) and the Department of Defence (Senior Assistant Secretary), and retired from the public service in 1975. He holds a Bachelor of Commerce degree (Melbourne University) and was a graduate of the Australian Staff College, ‘Manyung’, Mt Eliza, Victoria. He has been a volunteer at the Australian War Memorial for 21 years doing research into aircraft relics held at the AWM, and more recently research work into RAAF World War 2 fatalities. He has written and published eight books on RAAF fatalities in the eight RAAF Squadrons serving in RAF Bomber Command in WW2. He is a member of Canberra Legacy.
I suppose this leaves us with what happened to LN797 if it was not involved in this loss. Wellington X LN753 'P' is more than a digit away so Alan must have transposed it from some official advice. Someone may be able to put the question to RAFCommands. Cheers Geoff
A possibility for the confusion could be that the other aircraft had an incident around the same time and the incorrect number made it onto the RAF casualty message. RAAF casualty files were created for (nearly) every member involved in a reportable incident, an aircraft crash or anything that led to an injury or death. The genesis of the file would normally be the notification message from the RAF to the RAAF. The fact that the NAA file header contains the incorrect tail number and that number also appears in Alan Storr's research would indicate that the file contains the wrong number all the way through.
Victor Belt was my great-uncle - this newspaper cutting may be of interest. If anyone has any further information I would be grateful to hear from them.
