4 RTR Pre-Embarlation Roll 1939/40

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by owen davey, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    Drew. I think you previously posted you have such a roll? If I did not mis understand can you advise if service man J. Jones , service # 7880938 isi listed. Thank you
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Five Jones listed, none of them a J Jones.
     
  3. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    O
    first, thank you for checking Drew.
    Second this is a bit weird.I have him s sequently reported as not missing.. He shows up yet again as reported as not missing.I am interested because if this is J. Or James Jones, b1918 in Lancaster it might fit with a story his kids remember him telling them of being trapped or surrounded but “ his troop mates came back to get him and his pals. Seems to fit with the confused fighting with the Germans which 4 RTR encountered. The man I am looking for went out to the Western Desert and ended up in 2RTR when it shipped out to Burma. There is an entry in the 2 RTR war diary that it was reinforced with a draft of 65 officers and or from 4 RTR on 10 Jan 1942. We have had two go around with GlSgow. First time received the records of an unknown person. Second time were told thecould not find him. Any advice gratefully received.
     
  4. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    Missing. Then not missing. And again, subsequently not missing.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    What evidence do you have he was 4 RTR?
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    7880938

    His number is listed on here first initial will be I not J.
    Annex F – Roll of Honour World War II
    Jones Idris 7880938 Cpl 4RTR Middle East 06 December 1941

    Listed on CWGC.

    Casualty


    Has to be a different chap to the one you are looking for so forget that number .

    ..

    Did you get given Idris's records if you gave them that number ?
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Idris Jones
    Given Initials: I
    Rank: Corporal
    Death Date: 6 Dec 1941
    Number: 7880938

    Birth Place: Birkenhead
    Residence: Chester
    Regiment at Enlistment: Royal Tank Regiment RAC
    Branch at Enlistment: Royal Armoured Corps
    Theatre of War: Middle East
    Regiment at Death: Royal Tank Regiment RAC
    Branch at Death: Royal Armoured Corps

    TD
     
  8. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    RTR Attestations:

    Jones_rtr01.JPG

    Jones_rtr02.JPG
     
  9. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    I am going to apologize upfront here Please bear with me..I have used conjecture to try to account for a series of disparate facts about the service of J.Jones or James Jones Service in the RTR in WW2.He was may late brother in law,
    married to my sister Marie Davey in Morecambe in 1947.My family emigrated to Canada, including this couple and their two children in the period 1951-1955. I knew my brother in law only reasonably well. He was a kind decent man, wonderful to my sister and his eventual three children. But he was taciturn, and shared little..The one thing he was not shy about was his pride in serving in the RTR. He wore a bespoke RTR embossed blaze rand full regimental accoutrements. We still have those pieces.
    In late 2017 his son Tony Jones called me to say he had terminal cancer. He asked me to trry and help him recover information on his Dads service records. Unfortunately.
    he died earlier this year. His sister asked me to keep going bur she sent the applications to Glasgow. I did not see what she sent or what they replied.
    Here is what I do know. His family says he tod them he was evacuated from Dunkirk. They also says he referred to himself as one of the Desert Rats. He said that he fought in Western Desert engagements. He told them, and we know this to be true that he fought in Burma in the 7th Armoured Brigade. The Retreat. My sister told me that she spent many crazed night with him after their marriage. He had contracted Malaria and had serial nightmare screaming about encounters with the Japanese. He told his family he walked out of Burma with a small group of comrades and that, by chance they stumbles into a Salvation Army out post in Assam which cared for lepers.
    My research besides reading,
    writing to Bovington, reading the War Diary of 2RTR, has relied on the reports of casualties registers. Using them I have tries to match events and places where, as I know it, J Jones served. That is how I came up with service # 798831 I reasoned that if he was in the RTR in France in 1940 he might be n the register for 4 RTR. Clearly I am wrong, For sending you al n a wild goose chase I apologize again.
    I really want to find Mr. Jones. He was a brave soldier and suffered a great deal in later life from injuries and ailments due to his service,
    If there is anything you can do to help me achieve that objective I would be most grateful. I will send you and additional file on my research ,.
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    There appears to be only 1 marriage record for a Marie Davey in 1947

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Marie A Davey
    Registration Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1947

    Registration district: Lower Agbrigg
    Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
    Spouse: Raw
    Volume Number: 2c
    Page Number: 888

    and that shows the spouse as
    Name: Harold Raw
    Registration Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1947
    Registration district: Lower Agbrigg
    Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
    Spouse: Davey Or Walker
    Volume Number: 2c
    Page Number: 888



    Perhaps you mean another Miss Davey with a forename Mary
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Mary J Davey
    Registration Date: Jul-Aug-Sep 1947
    Registration district: Lancaster
    Inferred County: Lancashire
    Spouse: James Jones
    Volume Number: 10c
    Page Number: 1551

    It might be a good idea to obtain a copy of the marriage certificate as it should show some details of James Jones that may help trace him

    Please be very careful in future that you spell the names of people correctly

    TD
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I hesitate to start checking Immigration databases of passenger lists until more concrete details are provided like dates of birth (available from marriage certificates)

    TD
     
  12. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    You are correct. Her given name was Mary Jefferson Davey, born Barrow in Furness 1925.
    I add this not for sympathy but so you know who you are dealing with. I am 79 and not as nimble, in all respect ,as I once was.
     
  13. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    correction. Mary J. Davey born barrow 1926
    married Lancaster 1947
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Mary J Davey
    Registration Date: 1926
    Registration district: Barrow in Furness
    Inferred County: Cumbria
    Re-registration Year: 1926
    Mother's Maiden Name: Jefferson
    Volume Number: 8e
    Page Number: 1069

    Canada, Find A Grave Index, 1600s-Current
    Name: Mary Jefferson Jones
    Maiden Name: Davey
    Birth Date: 1925
    Death Date: 16 Jan 2011
    Death Place: Ontario, Canada
    Cemetery: Resurrection Cemetery
    Burial or Cremation Place: Sarnia, Lambton County, Ontario, Canada
    Has Bio?: Y
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64346238

    TD
     
  15. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    Thank you TD that is my sister. James Jones is buried beside her.
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Owen

    What details are there of him on the headstone ??

    Or grab a copy of the marriage certificate so you will know his age and hence an approximate year of birth

    TD
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD


    That headstone on Findagrave says 1920-2000.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    I know that .Born, Lancaster, Lancashire December 1918. Father George Jones, mother maiden name Darwen. Lived on China Street Lancaster, Head stone just gives name DOB/DOD.
    I sent 3 JPEG files on my research to the site. Did not know how to drag them to this thread.
     
  19. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    1920 is a fudge. had to do with employment eligibility after he came to Canada
     
  20. owen davey

    owen davey Member

    16712783-79BA-4528-95CA-63FC858BFDC2.jpeg 6E682993-3CDF-4461-87C8-221A3D85EEB1.jpeg 86984F69-FD59-41DE-8E22-D8B9A660DC17.jpeg 6E682993-3CDF-4461-87C8-221A3D85EEB1.jpeg James Jones
     

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