4-inch mobile guns

Nice find. I'd like to know where the Dungeness one(s) were etc. That's only down the road from my mum and dads.

 

Litter bigger picture from here (on AEC Mammoth Major ?)

http://pics.livejournal.com/futb_all/pic/001kgxpz

And also 4'' Naval Gun on Foden Truck (link)

 

Crazy stuff!

I cannot imagine that the success rate would have been very good due to the unstable platform of the vehicle.

 

There was also a mobile 12-pounder:



12-pdr mobile gun, Littlestone-on-Sea, near Dungeness in Kent, 29 July 1940.

Nice find. I'd like to know where the Dungeness one(s) were etc. That's only down the road from my mum and dads.

I've attached a map showing the positions of three mobile 4" guns as of Jan 1941; there were other guns in the area (inc 4" static pieces). The northern-most two were for beach defence, the southern one in an anti-tank role. These guns at this time belonged to 916 (Independent) Bty RA.

I believe the mobile 4" guns in East Sussex and Kent were originally manned by 5 Medium Regt. RA, who had reached Blighty from Dunkirk by 1 June with 7 KIA and 29 wounded in France. They were sent north but ended up partially at Ashford in Kent by July 1st and I suspect it is they seen manning the guns in the IWM Littlestone pics.

Obviously mobile anyway, I expect the start locations of the guns moved to suit the local defences, so July 40 posns were possibly different to those marked.

I think I've seen mention of these actual guns being taken over by 915 and 916 (Ind) Btys; I know they later took delivery of American 75mms for anti-tank purposes to replace the 4"s.

The Dungeness peninsula from Lydd Ranges round to Dymchurch Redoubt was 'A' Sub-Area of 45 Division; 45 were relieved by 44 Div in Oct/Nov 1940. The gun positions I've marked come from the 44 Div CRA diary; I've not yet looked at 45 Div CRA, but I expect it would confirm the locations as of July 1940. (5 Med Regt. diary is not very detailed in this regard.) 45 CRA diary is possibly missing, or else I've not yet identified it as PROCat is not always very helpful...

For a mind-blowing animation of one of these mobile guns, go to the Walberswick website: Animations » Walberswick - Coastal Defences of World War 2 and click the left-hand circle on the map ('Field Gun Battery') - you get to fly round a model based on the IWM pics.

- Pete

 

Interestingly I read about these recently in a Regt history (unfortunately I read so many I can't recall which one, old age and senility creeping on!). Apparently when fired they had a distressing habit of removing window glass and roof tiles over a large area. Also, the gun drill included the unorthodox instruction. On the order FIRE, hold on tight to something! It would appear from this that they were unstable enough to literally throw the detachment off the vehicle.

Phil

 

A battery of Italian "autocannone 102/35" of the Ariete division, that were very similar truck mounted 4" naval guns, met with some success against the desert rats at Bir El Gubi, the idea was not that crazy, especially when used against tanks with no HE capability, as a 4" has a lot better range than an MG. But British naval 4" guns are likely to be 40 caliber long or more so heavier, more powerful, more muzzle blast and a bigger stress on a relatively light truck chassis.

 

In view of the fact that an invasion was thought imminent, it sounds like it was thought to be a good idea at the time.

Mobile artillery to defend the coastline would have made more sense in those uncertain times.

Regards
Tom

 

I think that gun on the Foden Truck (first picture) is BL 4 inch naval gun Mk VII

 

The Breda armoured gun is probably a prototype, the ones used in North Africa (served by naval crews) were unarmoured like the their ww1 predecessors using the same gun.

WW1



WW2




The gun the Italians used was probably this
Italy 102 mm/35 (4") Schneider-Armstrong Model 1914-1915


Don't think a standard WW2 heavy lorry can carry a large gun with significant armour, closest thing is the deacon that was not a great success.



With modern tech you can build a "tank with weels" but those things weight as much as a WW2 Sherman and carry 105mm high velocity guns.

 

In June 1940 four 4" guns mounted on Foden lorries arrived in Suffolk from RN Portsmouth. They could fire fore and aft with a traverse of approx 25 deg. Each carried 25 rounds as well as AA lmg's. They were commanded by Lt Wintle RN, who if CRA 11 Corps tried to get hold while off duty were informed that he was 'ashore!'. Later the RN personnel were recalled but left the guns.
Meanwhile the Army had developed its own version - eight of these arrived in Suffolk from the Woolwich Arsenal. Unlike the naval version they could only fire astern. They were nicknamed by 55th Div 'Susies' - which nickname seems to have been adopted by Eastern Command. Initial role of these guns was mobile anti-tank, but certainly some in 1941 were deployed in a role to engage enemy landing barges. I have heard a very interesting account of the effect of recoil on the lorries!!

 

Just found a 1982 Military Modelling Manual [ the "annual" produced by mil. mod. magazine] which has an article by Terry Gander and scale drawing by Ken Musgrave - Terry suggests that there were 49 conversions of 6x4 trucks to mount 4" naval guns [BL Mk 7 from 1908 and BL Mk 9 dating from 1915] and that these were based in Kent, Sussex and Hampshire. Terry's research indntified one type of Foded and two types of AEC, with the probability that other types were used, and suggests that some of the donor vehicles may have been bus chasis.
The magazine article includes all the photos that ave appeared in this thread and some others - I will try to find time to scan these in the next few days.
Noel

 

In June 1940 four 4" guns mounted on Foden lorries arrived in Suffolk from RN Portsmouth. They could fire fore and aft with a traverse of approx 25 deg. Each carried 25 rounds as well as AA lmg's. They were commanded by Lt Wintle RN, who if CRA 11 Corps tried to get hold while off duty were informed that he was 'ashore!'. Later the RN personnel were recalled but left the guns.
Meanwhile the Army had developed its own version - eight of these arrived in Suffolk from the Woolwich Arsenal. Unlike the naval version they could only fire astern. They were nicknamed by 55th Div 'Susies' - which nickname seems to have been adopted by Eastern Command. Initial role of these guns was mobile anti-tank, but certainly some in 1941 were deployed in a role to engage enemy landing barges. I have heard a very interesting account of the effect of recoil on the lorries!!

Thank you very much for this information, I have been seeking it for six months because I am trying to compile my father's service history; he was seconded from the navy to the army to tow these guns around the east coast, but navy and army seem to have no further information. I will follow up Wintle, which might take me further.

Ednamay

 

I stumbled across a posting by Stop Line which gave some information about mobile naval guns on the east coast in 1940, but I can't now find the thread to follow up.

My father was one of the naval staff who worked with a very mixed bunch of guys taking these guns along the coast and I can find no official information, navy or army.

I am trying to compile a 'life' for my son and nephews, so if someone could point me in the right direction, I should be very grateful.

Were he still alive, my father would be 105 years old ............

Ednamay

 

Is this the thread you are looking for?

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/27049-4-inch-mobile-guns.html

 

I've merged the threads Edna.

To find where your old posts are, click on your Username on the top right of the page.
This takes you to your profile.
Click 'statistics', and then 'find all posts by', and it'll take you to all your previous posts.

Thanks very much, this is all very helpful.

A bit of light relief:

I think my father and his mobile gun crew (mixed navy plus army) were attached to a regiment, don't know which, but they were not very concerned about the gun crews which were left to forage for themselves, slept in tents or in lorries or under trees. My father showed them how to trap rabbits - not a gypsy but a survivor.

My father took his crew to Shotley, HMS Ganges, where he found some shipmates. As his crew were part navy, he negotiated with the powers upstairs for a few days/nights, a bath, laundry facilities, a good sleep and some decent food!

Ednamay

 

Does anyone happen to know which regiment was supposed to be responsible for these units? I am hoping to find something in a regimental history somewhere to give a bit more detail.

Ednamay