Good evening Can anybody help with the disbandment or movement details to assist myself and Bluebell Minor in our research It appears when 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division moved north to take over from 3rd Canadian Infantry Division CAOF the division disbanded its HQRA (the last recorded location was Kaiser-Karls Bad in Bad Lippspringe) and took over 4 AGRA at Oldenburg May 46 in turn the division was disbanded Aug 46 replaced by 7th Armoured Division however their documentation at Kew do not record 4 AGRA Two units can be accounted for 3 Medium Regiment to Kingsway Barracks Rendsburg Mar 46 renamed 15 Medium Regt Apr 47 13 Medium Regiment 51 (Lowland) Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment 65 (Highland) Medium Regiment 68 (West Lancashire) Medium Regiment 79 (Scottish Horse) Medium Regiment disbanded Mar 46 356 Independent Searchlight Battery 400 Independent Searchlight Battery 4 Light Anti-Aircraft Searchlight Battery 4 Army Group Workshops REME Thanks in anticipation Steve
Thanks Rob Turns out that later war diaries do not exist...thanks to Bluebell Minor for trying...hoping to get to 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division war diaries that should be able to help with the research Best regards Steve
I have a few thoughts - not backed by any evidence. It is odd to read of a British Division disbanding its HQRA. Post 1945 British Army divisions with Gunners under command must have an HQRA. At all times someone who knows about Gunner operations, personnel and equiplment must be responsible for these staff functions at formation level over the artillery regiments. Otherwise, soldiers would go hungry, malefactors unpunished, infantrymen would have ideas above their station and the rampant egos of commanding officers would be released from their bonds to superior authority. I.e. the world as we know it would end. However, given the context of demobilising 21 AG, it makes sense for the staff of 4 AGRA to take over administrative responsibility for 52 Div's gunners for a three month period while both formations demobilise. 4 AGRA were already in Oldenburg, the concentration area for 52 Div. Its staff were an existing team, with local knowledge an established Q structure and accommodation on charge. No imminent military operations were anticipated and 4 AGRA's unfamiliarity with divisional fireplanning was irrelevant. What purpose would it serve to hand over accommodation for barracks garages etc to an ephemeral HQRA, or change 4 AGRA stationary, painted signs on barracks and vehicles for three months? Neither 52 Div nor 4 AGRA were intended to exist by the end of Aug 1946 and the soldiers remaining in the peacetime army would be reorganised as 7th Armoured Division or one of the other BAOR formations. My guess is that the Q staff of some of these formations may have been transfered with the accommodation. There may have been other reasons for disbanding HQRA 52 Div before 4 AGRA e.g. CRA 52 Div and other key staff may have been posted or demobilised before Commander 4 AGRA. This is my null hypotheses - HQRA 52 Div are allowed to PUFO early on ENDEX and 4 AGRA ends with a whimper as an administrative convenience.
Sheldrake Thank you for your for your very credible comments regarding the disbandment/amalgamation of HQ Artillery 52 Division and 4 AGRA.. There is more than an element of truth in your final sentence, i have seen evidence in a number of the Kew Archive folders of the increasing concern of units disinterest in basic military staff work other than that concerned with food, accommodation and return to the UK. Equally Commanders at all levels were concerned with maintaining the morale and discipline of proud wartime only units which were in a state of constant turmoil as drafts, often of the most long serving and therefore most experienced men, returned to the UK and civilian life, without replacement
Incidently, I suspect that some of the 4 AGRA staff ended up in HQRA 7th Armoured Dvision when they took over the Oldenburg area and settled into Verden. The barrack accommodation remains the same (and will retain some Q Staff) even when the Army plays musical chairs with the formations.
Rob Thank you The 4 AGRA Diaries do indeed do go on till 1946, my mistake, I missed the final volume when searching online for Gunner BAOR formations in the WO 171 Series held at Kew
Sheldrake Many thanks for your input a great read To add the wartime 7 Armd Div was finally disbanded by Jun 48 with units to Hannover District from Sep 47 the GOC Major-General George ‘Pip’ Philip Bradley Roberts MC DSO became the commander of Hannover District...as also recorded 4 ARGA reappeared in 1947 as 4 AGRA (Field) and then used to for the "new" 7 Armd Div when reforming in Mar 49 Thanks to Rob and Bluebell Minor for finding the later war diaries Best regards Steve
Sheldrake This very old thread that needs updating having now received Kew documentation thanks to Lee@arcre The wartime 4th Army Group Royal Artillery disbanded 23 Feb 46 and was relieved by 2th/9th (Highland) Canadian Infantry Brigade of 3rd Canadian Infantry Division (Canadian Army Occupation Force) a British A Branch remained for British Army units in Oldenburg 15 May 46 – 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division (without Royal Artillery) relieved 3rd Canadian Infantry Division (Canadian Army Occupation Force) 15 Jul 46 – 7th Armoured Division relieved 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division 14 Jan 48 – 7th Armoured Division formed Hannover District and disbanded 13 Feb 48 21st Army Group later British Army of the Rhine still under construction
