3RTR July 1944 War diary and my Grandad’s curious medal award

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by CuriousG, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    these are the squares mentioned for July 3rd bottom square is position of night leaguer.

    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    M Kenny

    Possibly me but have you marked those squares correctly? I make the leaguer area one square lower. Haven't checked the others as am pressed for time.

    Edit: corrections noted.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  3. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    SDP, wow!
    This is insane, so much detail - the dates I'm questioning in my mind, as my Grandad told me about the shelling which would be on the 6/7/44 according to the records (15x 105mms rounds), although slightly out of kilter with the summary and the service record.

    I will have a look at the map next, can't thank everyone enough
  4. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    corrected map showing movements 3/7/44. Have also removed and replaced the incorrect one in post 21 above
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  5. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Fog of War: wouldn't be the only time 3RTR have confused dates between events and casualties and/or the Service Records containing mistakes.
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  6. Crock

    Crock Member

    Haha the bug bites hard!!

    Your in safe hands on here, many knowledgeable and helpful people! :)

    I too recently started re tracing my grandads steps through the war, he was a tank driver in 3rtr so i will add your grandads name to my list and keep a look out for him on my travels.

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  7. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    Cheers Keith, have written off to WMO for war medal entitlement, it's quite a voyage of discovery! To think he was only 18!
  8. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Hi Curiousg. Could you confirm that Ronald was the son of William Binks and Bertha (nee Greenhalgh) of Bolton. I'm compiling a list of all the men who were in 23rd Hussars (however briefly). Thanks.
  9. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    Just had my first look at this topic.

    I can’t see whether anyone else has picked up on the Africa Star anomaly?

    OP says his bought the Medal to go with Africa Star ribbon but looking at his B103 forms he doesn’t appear to have an entitlement?

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  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Steve - have to agree with your conclusion, there nothing in the documents posted that show him in North Africa or connected areas

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  11. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

  12. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    Hi Steve, Apologies for the initial empty reply, was on my phone and didn't work so well.

    Yes you are correct, although I acquired a genuine 39-45 Star to go with the 39-45 original ribbon I already had (the Africa Star had the original 39-45 ribbon).

    I've since got some genuine Africa Star ribbon to complete the set.

    There's no record of my Grandad in either Africa or Burma (or qualifying territories), but he's awarded the Burma Star, probably a mistake. Still it leaves the mystery of the acquisition of the Africa Star, not sure I'll ever find out, as all the people who would've known have sadly passed away.

    I'll update the thread when the WMO confirms entitlement proper as a result of my enquiries, they've acknowledged receipt but will take several months.
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  13. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    Hi Harkness, yes that's right Ronald was the eldest of two children (his younger brother was Arnold) of William Binks and Bertha (nee Greenhalgh) of Bolton - if there's anything else you need to complete your list, just let me know - I have some photo's (have posted them elsewhere in this thread)
  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    He is likely entitled to 39/35 Star for his 3 weeks service in France (rather than usual 180 day requirement) on the basis he was unable to meet the full qualifying period due to suffering disability from his wounds and his early 1945 medical board at Catterick downgrading him to B(7?).

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  15. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    Hi Steve, yeah I think you're right on the 39/45 Star, will consult one of my friends who is an eminent Numismatic (I think I got that right).

    I also picked up on the (B7) as from what I can tell it went to 3 or perhaps 4, but I can't find any reference as low as 7, perhaps it's a 2 but just the handwriting.
  16. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    There was an elder brother, James Robert Binks, born 12 Mar 1920, died 8 Apr 1977, living at 55 Mancroft Avenue, Bolton in 1976.

    Binks Household (5 People)
    116 Beaconsfield Street, Bolton C.B., Lancashire
    William Binks - 24 Aug 1892 - School Caretakers Assistant
    Bertha Binks - 12 Sep 1891 - Unpaid Domestic Duties
    James R Binks - 12 Mar 1920 - Little Piecer Cotton Mill
    Arnold Binks - 24 Dec 1927 - Butchers Assistant
    Sorry, this record is officially closed. [This will be Ronald]

    I have an R. Binks, Butcher, 286 Chorley Old Road, Bolton in 1969. Is that Ronald? If not, could you please tell me his occupation. Thanks.
  17. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    Ah yes, that's correct, I didn't know until very recently (as in the last 8months) that my Grandad had an elder brother (my Dad did the family tree back to 1700 and something).

    The entry should read (if it were correct):

    Ronald Binks - 08 Apr 1924 - Butchers Assistant
    Arnold Binks - 24 Dec 1927 - School (or similar)

    >> I have an R. Binks, Butcher, 286 Chorley Old Road, Bolton in 1969. Is that Ronald? If not, could you please tell me his occupation.

    Yes, that information is correct he had his own business as a traditional Butcher at that address, DOD 06/01/2001 if that's something you need.
    I also believe from his service record this was his post WIA occupation in the Army post WW2 (I can double check if you like).

    - not a massively interesting side fact but I used to spend the summer holidays helping out in the shop in the early 80's. I used to pick all the cherries out of the Hartley's jam for the toast we had at 10am, and deny all knowledge (I'm sure it irritated him but he used to say, we always seem to get a jar with no cherries in the summer :-D )
  18. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all that - I think I've got all I need now. Thanks to your posting his service record here, I've found a 'lost' 23H man. Because he left the Regiment before they went to war, he doesn't appear on any address list or other record. I can now add his details to my records. Website coming soon hopefully.

    Hartley's jam - yum!
  19. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Here's what Ronald would have experienced during his time with 23H:


    May 1943
    Normal Training
    16-20 Exercise "SABRE".
    25 Brigade Athletic Sports held at Fenners Sports Ground, Cambridge.

    June 1943
    7 Regiment moved by road to Doncaster Staging Camp.
    8 Regiment moved to Bridlington.


    9-21 Normal training on gunnery, driving, etc., on Sherman tanks (first mention of Shermans).

    July 1943
    7-8 Exercise "EAGLE".
    12 Regiment moved to bivouac at Butterwick Whins.
    17 Regiment returned from bivouac.
    27 "A" Squadron firing at Hornsea.
    28 "B" Squadron firing at Hornsea.
    29 HQ and "C" Squadron firing at Hornsea.

    August 1943
    1-10 Firing at Riccal Bridge and Spaunton.

    September 1943
    14 Firing at Rolston Range.
    16 Firing at Boynton Range.
    17 Firing at Rolston Range.
    23- Exercise "BLACKCOCK".

    October 1943
    11-14 Wading (All Squadrons).
    18 Firing at Boynton Range.
    19 Firing at Filey Range.
    21 Firing at Boynton Range.
    22 Advance party to Kirkcudbright.
    23 Main party to Kirkcudbright.
    24- Firing at Kirkcudbright.

    November 1943
    1 Army Commander visited Regiment at Kirkcudbright.
    5 Returned to Bridlington from Kirkcudbright.
    14 Concert by Regimental concert party in Grand Pavilion in aid of Charity.
    25 Regimental dance in the Grand Pavilion in aid of Regimental Funds.

    December 1943
    8 Wading at Ripon.
    10 Visit of C - in - C.
    11-12 Hornsea Ranges.
    16 Visit of Army Commander. B vehicle wading at Hull.
    17-18 B vehicle wading at Hull.
    19 Fylingdales Ranges.
    22 Hornsea Ranges.
    27 Hornsea Ranges.

    January 1944
    4-5 Exercise "Bridlington".
    6 Party to U.S. Armoured Division.
    7-8 Exercise "Frederick Uncle III".
    9 Hornsea Ranges.
    14-15 Boynton Ranges.
    23-29 Drivers' Course at Dundonald.
    25-26 Rolston Ranges.
    30-31 Fylingdales Ranges.

    February 1944
    2 Firing at Rolston Range.
    4-6 Wading at Bridge Hewick.
    8 General Montgomery addressed the Brigade.
    9 Wading at Hull.
    10 Firing at Fylingdales.
    11 Firing at Fylingdales and Willerby.
    13-25 Exercise "Eagle".

    March 1944
    1 Rolston Range.
    2 Rolston Range. Visit of Corps Commander.
    3-18 Exchange of personnel with United States Army.
    6-7 Firing at Midhope Range.
    8-22 A/A troop course at Lulworth and Netherton.
    9-11 Firing at Fylingdales Range.
    13 Rolston Range.
    19 Wading at Hull and Bridge Hewick.
    21 Wading Bridge Hewick. Firing at Hornsea.
    22 Visit of HM. The King. Hornsea Ranges. Advance party left for Aldershot.
    25 Recce troop exercise "Honey".
    30 Main Administration party to Warcop. Main party left for Aldershot.


    31 Main party arrived Beaumont Barracks, Aldershot.

    April 1944
    5 Rear party arrives.
    7 20 x Officers & Other Ranks see German tanks at Chobham STT.
    8 "Firefly" gunners to Warcop AFV range.
    20 B vehicles wade at Aborfield.
    21 All vehicle commanders attend lecture on Beach organisation.
    25 B vehicles wade at Hawley. I.O. lectures to all officers.

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