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3rd Tank Battalion Scots Guards (6th Guards tank brigade) composition.

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by Hellhound94, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Hellhound94

    Hellhound94 Member

    Hi everyone. First of all i would like to say hi to everybody and i hope that you will forgive me for my grammatical mistakes (i am italian).

    I would like to ask you if you know if 3rd Tank Battalion Scots Guards has used other tanks exept churchills. In particular i would like to know if fireflys were never adopted.

    The second question is about mechanized infantry.
    Does the 3rd Tank Bt SG had attached infantry? Or it was a "pure" tank battalion.

    Thank you so much.......i mean really thank you!

    P.s. i hope that i have made all correctly without crushing any rule
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi and welcome - I'm sure you'll get the answers you seek shortly.
     
  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  4. Hellhound94

    Hellhound94 Member

    Thank you so much!

    In the link i cannot found veichles composition but it's amazing as informations!
     
  5. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    The short answers are 'no' / 'pure'. Armoured Brigades ('cruiser' tanks) had an attached infantry Motor Battalion, but not Tank Brigades. These were meant to support Infantry Divisions so, in our case, 3 SG would usually be attached to an Infantry Brigade.

    They wouldn't have had Fireflies, but there might have been some 6pr Churchills amongst the 75mm ones to provide greater anti-tank punch.
     
  6. Hellhound94

    Hellhound94 Member

    Ooooook! Thank you so much sir! Really thank you!

    I was looking for a ww2 scottish unit of the british army that had both infantry and armoured veichles expecially firefly or two single scottish unit that operated closely in 44-45........this is the reason of my question!

    Again thank you!
     
  7. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

  8. Hellhound94

    Hellhound94 Member

    But no "scots" firefly right?
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    You could have a look at the Royal Scots Greys in 4th Armoured Brigade.
     
  10. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Just to echo Idler's info generally, the Tank Bns deployed in 21AG had a mixture of 6-pr, 75-mm and 95-mm tanks, plus their Recce Tp with 11 Stuart light tanks. In theory all 6-pr Churchills were to be converted to 75-mm standard, but in 21AG there developed an allowance of one 6-pr and two 75-mm Churchills per Tp, with five Tps per Sqn, with Sqn HQ having two 95-mm and one 75-mm tanks. Bn/RHQ had four 75-mm Churchills. Bde HQ was authorised four 75-mm Sherman tanks for command duties.

    6th Gds Bde is shown as being fully equipped with 6-pr Churchills in the June 1944 RAC return that's often quoted online. They had 164 sets for conversion to 75-mm standard at this time. Later AFV returns for 1945 show the Bde with fluctuating numbers of 6-prs, from notes I made sufficient for the 45 allowed by unit entitlements, at least until the Rhine crossing, finishing with 19 6-prs by VE-Day.

    Also as noted the Tank Bdes were attached to Inf Divs, though 6 Gds had actually been a part of 15th (Scottish) Division during its spell as a Mixed Division in Home Forces. When the Mixed Div was abandoned the Tk Bdes reverted back to Corps/Army Tps, attached as required.

    I'll second the recommendation for 4th Armd Bde and the Royal Scots Greys to find your Scottish Fireflies as the Bde was well stocked with them in 1945.

    Gary
     
  11. Hellhound94

    Hellhound94 Member

    Wow amazing and exaustive answer! Really really thank you!! I will save all the page!!

    Now my questio is: does the 4th brigade had scots infantry? Or just the Greys was scottish?
    Or alternatively: does the Scots Greys had some infantry attached in their order of battle? Thank you so much!
     
  12. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    4th Armd Bde was built around three Armd Regts (CLY, 44RTR and the Greys) and a Motor Bn, 2KRRC. In theory the Mot Bn was able to deploy one Motor Coy with each Armd Regt. KRRC were not a Scottish Regt by lineage, though I'm sure there was a full mix of English, Scots, Welsh and Irish in its personnel.

    I can't think of an Armd unit that had its own 'organic' infantry element, as decribed higher up the thread it was a case of units being paired up to provide mutual support. Recce and Regts did include an Assault Tp in their Recce Sqns, and Armd Car Regts had a small Support Tp. Armd Regts proper however I can't think of any organisation that included their own infantry.

    Gary
     
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Unfortunately the Scots Guards were barely represented in the Guards Armoured Division - all the other Guards regiments formed composite battlegroups from their armoured and infantry units during the NWE campaign. Are the Irish or Welsh of any interest?
     

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