3rd Royal Tank Regiment War Diary

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by hardpanman, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. hardpanman

    hardpanman New Member

    I am looking for information concerning an incident that occurred in Levern, Germany, on 4 April, 1945. After reading PhilGraham's post titled 11th Armoured Division...from 17 December, 2012, and the excellent response it received, I surmised that the 3rd Royal Tank Regiment and perhaps the 4th King's Shropshire Light Infantry were involved. The war diary provided by dryan67 included page 130 that noted the tail end of the incident. I would like to read page 129 to see if more information is available concerning the British version of events. Also, page 102 of the 4th KSLI history mentioned a possible casualty that would account for the fourth fatality that occurred. I have the casualty reports for the RTR that account for three of the five fatalities. Page 101 should identify this commander. The German news articles about the incident are a little garbled in translation although I've gotten the gist of it.
    Any assistance is appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Dave
     
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  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Could you be a bit more specific about the 'incident'. Apart from 'B' Squadron 3RTR having a tough time taking Levern, there is nothing in the War Diary that stands out as an 'incident'.

    Note: I'm confused about your reference to page numbers in the War Diary. War Diaries don't have page numbers! It might help if you could also provide a link to the post you have referenced: there are dozens of threads about 11th Armoured Division.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  4. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Thanks Owen. All now a bit clearer. Still intrigued about the 'incident' and that it appears to have been reported in the German press.
     
  5. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is page 129 as requested:
     

    Attached Files:

  6. hardpanman

    hardpanman New Member

    Thanks Dryan67, for page 129. Perhaps 'engagement' is a better word than 'incident'. The RTR apparently opened up on the town of Levern after being fired upon by some inexperienced German soldiers. According to some of the translations about what occurred, a French worker was questioned by one of the tank commanders about something. I imaging the question was, "Are there any German soldiers about?" His reply was, "NO!" Then a machine gun opened fire on one of the tanks. Either five or six British soldiers were killed. I can account for three RTR men. That page 102 of the KSLI history notes the author watching a commander walking in the Levern area with his map case slung around his neck, that being a perfect target for a sniper. I cannot tell if the author was indicating that this commander was killed or that he could have been killed for this lapse in thinking. Page 101 might clear it up.
    Dave
     
  7. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is pp. 99-101 of the 4th King's Shropshire Light Infantry history:
     

    Attached Files:

  8. hardpanman

    hardpanman New Member

    Again, dryan, thanks for the KSLI pages 99-101. It provides a great counterbalance to the German news articles and the eyewitness accounts of the citizens of Levern.
     
  9. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    No problem. I'm glad to be of help.
     
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  10. stuartpage

    stuartpage New Member

    hi am after the 3rd RTR war diaries for July 44, trying to trace the history of J.A. Jordan who was wounded on or around the 11th -18th...? Many Thanks..
     
  11. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    Hi Stuart, unfortunately, the war diaries contain very little info regarding individuals, and hardly ever mention names, etc. Do you have any details on him, rank, squadron, occupation, i.e. if he was a driver, gunner, etc? For the period you refer to, the only casualties recorded are on the 18th; this is what it has to say for that day:
    1000; Reached 070623. Engaged enemy A tk guns and tks in area HUBERT FOLIE – 072618.
    1400; Posn at 070623 covered by enemy A tk guns and tks. Withdrawn to 072628.
    1500; 2 NY took up posn on the right in area 070628.
    1700; Further shelling and A tk fire. Withdrew to 075637.
    2100; Fired on by 4 Tiger tks from area 083634. Engaged them with assistance from 2 Northants Yeo.
    2200; Fired on by approx 3 Tiger and Panther tks from ridge in area 063635 – 067628.
    2215; 6 Sherman tks of unit knocked out.
    2230; Withdrew to area 076638 and leaguered. 12 tks in leaguer.

    and in the appendix for July:

    Appendix - Vehicle Casualties for own unit July 1944.
    18 July 44. 1. Stuart V. 14 Sherman V. 3 Sherman Vc.

    Appendix - Summary of Casualties July 1944.
    18 July. 2 Officers. 15 O.Rs Killed. 4 Officers. 35 O.Rs Wounded.


    And that's it. I suggest you apply for a copy of his service card from the Tank Museum at Bovington (https://www.tankmuseum.org/schools-and-research/archives), which can be done online for a small charge, and they can also supply you with a copy of the war diaries, again for a small charge, but if you are just concerned with those dates, it may not be worth your while. The service card will contain his service number, dates of postings, etc, although perhaps you could also apply for a copy of his service record which is held at the National Archives (Veterans' Service Records), which will be more detailed. If you have any photos of his time with 3RTR, post them as they may help, and we love photos here!!! Good luck!
    PS: came across this thread which includes action on 18th July :Unit Diary 3rd Royal Tank regiment
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  12. stuartpage

    stuartpage New Member

    Many Thanks Frank, I have his service number 3860127 and have the Service record off Forces War Records, which is sparse, just realised I miss read the dates, date of action was 18/7/44 but incident date 11/8/44 whatever that means?

    Date of Action:18/07/1944
    Fate:Wounded
    Incident Details:Reported to the War Office Casualty Branch for the 24 hours ending at 09:00.
    Incident Date:11/08/1944
    Information:Casualty List No. 1522.

    Will try the Tank Museum, and National Archives..
    Kind Regards

    Stuart
     
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  13. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    On the service card, does it mention 'Y' list? It may refer to being transferred after being released from hospital, etc, posted back to 3RTR. It might not be a bad idea to post a copy of the card, that way someone will be able to decipher it! If you think you're going to get into this more, it might be an idea to start your own thread, that way it'll be easier for others to see your posts.
    Have a look here, if you haven't already, they have one entry for him, although as I'm not signed up with them, I can't see it: British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945 | findmypast.co.uk
     
  14. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    The term ‘Y List’ was still being used for someone who had been injured and was returning to Regimental Duty (RD) for most of the time l was serving!
     
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  15. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Stuart

    By way of clarification:
    1. You do NOT have a copy of his Service Records from Forces War Records. That's why the details are, as you properly describe, sparse. His full Service Records are only available from the MOD Records Office in Glasgow (easy to find lots of links to those people on this Forum). Those Records are NOT kept at either Bovington or the NA.
    2. Providing he was in a Regiment of the Royal Armoured Corps - which he was if he was 3RTR - then Bovington Library and Archive will have his original Tracer Card. This is a brief summary (sometimes very brief and incomplete but well worth the effort anyway) of when he enlisted and where (Regiments and Lists) he was posted. It is literally a 6x4 type size file card. You can get a copy for the princely sum of £5 (correct when I last checked a few months ago).....except there's a catch....they are now closed for the duration of this virus thingy. I suggest you check their web site for details as to when they will be reopening. As a final note, although the details are highly variable, the £5 to get my late father's Tracer Card - he was also 3RTR - was probably the best £5 I've ever spent.
     
  16. Frank Flattery

    Frank Flattery Well-Known Member

    Oops, probably my mistake, meant to say 'tracer card', came out 'service card'.....sorry!
     

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