3rd Battalion IRISH GUARDS

Peter,
PM me your email address and I'll send it to you

D

 

Hello,
My uncle on my mothers side Patrick McAneny 3rd Btn Irish Guards number 2720423 was marked as being killed on 23 April 1945 aged 27 and is buried in the Soltau Becklingen war grave cemetery, he joined up on September 5th 1939 to avoid being called up and put in an English regiment, so the family story goes.
I have been to the grave twice in 30 years to visit it as I never knew him as I was born in 1950.
I don!t know what was his duties were though.
Any help would be welcome and some photos that are with my sister in Coventry and I will post them here when I get them.
Regards
Martin

Hello Martin,
Welcome to the forum; it'd be great if you could post photos, I'd love to see them.

Courtesy of another forum member (Capt Bill) a photo of your maternal uncle's gravestone.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/WAR%20GRAVES/GdmnMcAneny.jpg

CWGC :: Certificate

I believe that your uncle was Killed in Action as opposed to Dying of Wounds, so I will check the war diary for that day and get back to you.

If Patrick wasn't married and didn't have children (and there is no note on the cwgc page of this), your mother would be deemed to be next of kin. If she or her siblings are still alive then they could either apply or give consent for you to apply, for Patrick's service records. The address can be found here:
http://www.ww2guards.com/ww2guards/Records.html

These records contain a good deal of information which would be helpful in pinpointing his whereabouts and dates of training, any injuries etc etc.

Regards,
Diane

 

Hi Martin,

It is quite tricky to pinpoint anything specific - shelling at Frankenbostel is mentioned in the War Diary. At this stage, the 2nd and 3rd Bns were working together in smaller groups in various villages and towns in the area. Platoons/Companies from 3IG were with Troops/Squadrons from 2IG and even if you knew which Company your uncle was in, it would be hard to say exactly where he was when he was killed. Seemingly he was the only casualty for that day in 3 Bn and the IG suffered one other fatality in the 2nd Bn, also KIA:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2389771

[Just to emphasize the problems with War Diaries - 21st April / Wistedt is mentioned but nothing specifically about Guardsman E. Charlton who won his posthumous VC by supporting withdrawal of 3IG infantry. Eye witness reports were all collated at a later date, so even the last recipient of a VC in NWE doesn't get a mention.]

From his Regtl No. I'd guestimate that he joined the regiment in early 1940, but this is by no means certain.

Do any family members have his medals? I ask because I wonder if he was previously with the 1st battalion, in which case he may have a medal to cover the campaign in North Africa or Italy ... and if he was a veteran from that battalion, then it is very likely that he served in 4 Company which is mentioned on the 24th.

You may find this link interesting as it is about a veteran of 2bn who recalled events immediately previous to the death of your uncle in the area around Elsdorf. It also has a map of the area. (Frankenbostel is north of Elsdorf which is marked)
http://www.ww2guards.com/ww2guards/Photos/Pages/1929-1956_ARTHUR_ANDREW_TABS_MAHONEY,_2ARMD_%26_1BN.html

Regards,
Diane


From an earlier post -
From 3RD Battalion Irish Guards War Diary:

18th April 1945
Towards evening there was an Orders Group SOUTH of SOLTAU at which were told that the Brigade Group would concentrate in that area for the night, before striking WEST to TOSTEDT the following day with the object of capturing ZEVEN and cutting the Autobahn linking BREMEN and HAMBURG.

19th April 1945
The Grenadier Group, who were in the lead, crossed the railway lne in TOSTEDT at 1400hrs, and only minor opposition succeeded in cutting the Autobahn and pushing on to within 3 miles of the final objective. The Battalion Group, moving up behind, took over the responsibility for the area SITTENSEN and the Autobahn crossings NORTH and WEST of it, where we remained for the night.

20th April 1945
The Grenadier Group set off at first light for ZEVEN but soon met heavy opposition and were compelled to halt. Meanwhile the Battalion Group had been ordered to send a Company, Squadron Group to ELSDORF. Apart from a few mines the village was occupied without incident and patrols were sent to WISTEDT and WEHLDORF. The latter patrol being on the main ROTENBURG-ZEVEN road, obtained a satisfactory shoot at enemy transport moving NORTH from ROTENBURG. By evening the Autobahn from SITTENSEN to ELSDORF was clear and in use. A number of prisoners were taken during the day mostly from the Grossdeutschland Brigade.

21st April 1945
A strong counter-attack, which was subsequently proved to have been made by the 2 Battalions of 104 Panzer Grenadier Regiment (15 Panzer Grenadier Division), was launched, supporte by Artillery, Mortars, and Self-Propelled guns, on to the area ELSDORF-WISTEDT shortly after first light. The situation was serious for a time, as a Platoon and Troop occupying WISTEDT were surrounded and cut off from the main body. Only one tank with the Tank Commander and Platoon Commander with 4 men managed to get back to the Company area. Elsewhere in spite of bitter fighting and heavy shelling on our forward areas, the enemy attack had been beaten off by midday. Another Coy/ Squadron Group moved to FRANKENBOSTEL and Battalion HQ to RUSPEL. At about dusk 16 bombs were dropped on ELSDORF fortunately causing very few casualties. The firing of Verey lights from the ground seemed to be co-ordinated in the tactical picture, but it was not followed by any counter-attack.

22nd April 1945
At about 0200hrs a Self-Propelled gun made a demonstration to the EAST of ELSDORF but when the Defensive fire tasks were fired, it quickly withdrew again. Apart from active patrolling by our troops which ensured that the enemy were still in the area, the day was a quiet one with no sign of enemy activity on the scale of the previous day. Prisoners taken during the day tended to confirm the impression that an enemy withdrawal was imminent.

23rd April 1945
At about 0300hrs a single German with a Bazooka hit and destroyed a tank in the Squadron HQ in ELSDORF. Apart from this remarkable incident and for some sporadic shelling on FRANKENBOSTEL during the early hours, little was seen or heard of the enemy. The clearing of ROTENBURG by the 32nd Guards Brigade and the approach of the 53rd Welsh Division from the south seemed to have provoked a general withdrawal towards BREMEN.

24TH April 1945
The Battalion continued to fulfil its operational rold in the area ELSDORF. During the day the Grenadier and Coldstream Groups attacked and captured ZEVEN assisted by a demonstration by No 4 Coy from the area FRANKENBOSTEL.

 

Hi Maureen,
I have left messages for you on your profile and also on the thread you started as well as a Personal message. If you have any problems with accessing these, please click on my username ''dbf' to the left of this post and leave a message. Do you have any idea of when or where exactly he was injured as I can access the War Diary and the History for background. Do you have his Regimental No.?

Do you have any idea of which company your uncle served with in the 3rd Bn? Also could he have served first with the 1st Bn in either Tunisia or Italy?

If you are planning a surprise I realise this may be difficult to find out, but it is relevant to what actions he may have taken part in.

I have checked with my father and unfortunately he does not recall your uncle's name. With the age difference, he being a good 10 years younger than your uncle, they may not have had much dealings with each other, apart from the fact that there were so many 100s of men in a battalion.

Regards,
Diane

 

Hi Maureen,
I have sent you an email,
Regards,
Diane

 

Hello and welcome John.
Would you be willing to share the squad photo and post it up? I'd love to see it.

Regards
Diane

 

Sorry it's taken a couple of days John, but here's the squad photo. Would you mind checking that I've got the names correct, can't make out one of them?

Do you know when your father was wounded? And have you applied for a copy of his records already?

Guardsmen J Molloy, R. Gedny, S. Smith, W. Mead, L. Field
Guardsmen K. Dawson, A. Seekings, G. Plater, J. Catlow, F. Fullbrook, S. B?, P. Coleman, R. Howe, A. Jury
Guardsmen G. Gamble, J. Whiteside, CORPORAL E. TOWNSON (Squad Instructor), Trained Soldier E. McClay, Guardsmen E. Royle, B. Howard.

 

Indeed Wills, but only until Aug 44 when they went on attachment to WG.


IWM Ref: BU 458
Major Stewart Fotheringham and CSM Low of 'X' Company Scots Guards (under command of 1st Welsh Guards) watch mopping up operations during the advance on Brussels, 4 September 1944. The Major is carrying a German KAR 98 rifle.

This is what JOE V had to say ...

 

Us Jocks again! 'X Coy Scots Guards' - Sailed from Southampton 19 June attached 3rd Bn Irish Guards. Peoples War.

BBC - WW2 People's War - The Diary, Normandy 1944

Guardsman Angus, X Coy, SG attached 3IG states:
August 10th
At 0230 hrs we arrived two miles east of Vire. We stood by until dawn. We found we were on the slope of a big hill with the enemy on the opposite slope. At 0900 hrs shelling and mortar-fire began by both sides. At 1200 hrs I was hit by shrapnel from an exploding German shell and removed to hospital.



3IG War Diary; my father was in 1 Coy. :
1944 August Thursday 10
SOURDEVALLE
The Bn took over this new position without incident and the take-over was completed by 0200 hours. All through the day the whole Bn area was subjected to shelling and mortaring and during this time, Capt. D.G. KINGSFORD (No 1 Coy Comd) was killed by a shell splinter, Capt. D.E. COMPTON was wounded and 17 ORs wounded.

In the early evening, the two forward Coys - No. 1 (now commanded by Lt. P. DOYLE) and No. 4, were attacked by what was thought to be a recce force in strength - this was easily repulsed and the attack petered out, but unfortunately no identifications were obtained, although we inflicted several casualties on the enemy, but it was impossible to go forward in the daylight to search bodies. This was attempted after dark by the Intelligence Section and several dead Germans were found in the standing corn immediately in front of Nos 1 and 4 Coys, but the search still did not reveal an identification so urgently required by higher formation.

In the evening, orders were received that the Bn would attack the next day, and as a preliminary to this, a strong patrol from No 4 Coy, led by Lt. KINGAN, was sent to recce the bridge and river by 1a JARRIERRE immediately to the SOUTH of SOURDEVALLE. They discovered the bridge to be strongly held, but no identifications could be obtained, and it was impossible to get across the bridge to the houses on the other side.