3rd Battalion IRISH GUARDS

Cagny, 18th July 1944 - 2nd Battalion Irish Guards


Image from XXZ1 Prepare to Ram, Operation Goodwood, Normandy, 18th July 1944 by David Pentland. ( B ) - Cranston Fine Arts Aviation, Military and Naval Art

[IG WW2 History, Pages 378-383]
Cagny itself is a long, straggling village with the houses, as in an Irish village, scattered along the side of the main road from Caen to Vimont. East of Cagny the ground rises gently up to the low ridge which runs from Emieville southwards, dominating the left flank and hiding Vimont. Between Cagny and the top of the ridge the ground was open. The top, however, was festooned with thick hedges which merge into a strip of wood just where the road from Cagny passes by the village of Frenouville, a mile farther south-east. The German tanks and tractor-drawn 88-mm. guns were established along tihis ridge; it was from here that they had been shooting the Grenadiers in the flank as the advanced due south towards Cagny. Infantry and more guns were concentrated at the southern end of Frenouville and the strip of wood; and it was they who had halted the Coldstreamers.

The squadrons formed up in a line ahead - No. 2, No. 1, Battalion H.Q., and No. 3 Squadron. In every tank the words were repeated again and again - “Follow the pylons.” Lieutenant Anthony Dorman’s troop led the Battalion down the slope, passing some Grenadier tanks, to a ford across a small stream. Crossing the stream, No. 2 Squadron raced off to climb the ridge north of the road. Major Nial O’Neill led his squadron (No. 1) farther south and crossed the road in Cagny before he swung left and headed for Frenouville. Half-way up the slope the leading troop of No. 2 Squadron came under fire from the bulge in the ridge around Emieville. Lieutenant Anthony Dorman drove hastily into a little hollow, traversing his gun to the left to cover flank. The squadron veered off the right, while he unhooked his binoculars and prepared for one of the long-range gun duels he had heard so much about on training. Beginning his formal “anticipatory fire order,” “Seventy-five, traverse left, fire when …” he ended “straight ahead, let him have it!” A German 88-mm. gun tractor was backing noisily out of the hedge just forward of the crest 300 yards away. With one shot the gunner destroyed it, and Lieutenant Dorman started his formal order once again. When No. 2 Squadron reached this hedge farther to the right, they halted to let No. 1 Squadron in the orchards south-east of Cagny come up level with them. Then, together, they plunged forward to fight their way into Frenouville. Major John Madden, No. 2 Squadron commander, only now noticed that his second troop was missing. “What happened to John Gorman?”

Lieutenant John Gorman had bogged his tank while crossing the stream and his troop had stayed with him. It was firmly stuck, and there was nothing to do but leave it there and transfer himself into “Ballyragget,” one of his two other 75-mm. tanks. By the time he had cautiously negotiated the stream there was no sign of the rest of the squadron. He could get no reply to his wireless appeals - “the air was bedlam” - so, being a simple, straightforward young man, he put his head down and charged straight ahead. As he came up the hill he saw Lieutenant Dorman busily engaging the gun tractor and anther gun. “Where are they?” shouted Gorman. Dorman, interested only in Germans, waved towards the hill. Happy again, Gorman continued up the hill - if he did not find the squadron there at least he would be able to look around for them. Dorman watched him go, wondering what “Blockhead” Gorman was up to, but he soon thought of something else when he was wounded in the foot by a mortar bomb.

Lieutenant John Gorman, earnestly following the pylons, struck the lane from Cagny to Emieville and swung cheerfully up it with his second tank just behind him. As he came over the brow he gave a wild cry “Gunner!” Two hundred yards away were four German tanks - a Royal Tiger, an old-fashioned Tiger, a Panther and an old Mark IV - “having a conference they were, sitting in the middle of the field.” The Germans were equally surprised and were all facing the wrong direction. “Gun’s jammed, sir.” Guardsman Schole’s voice was despairing. “Oh, Christmas, why?” The nearest German tank was slowly traversing its massive gun. It was a Royal Tiger, the first seen on the Western Front. “Driver, ram!” shouted Gorman, and Lance-Corporal Baron saw what he must do. “Ballyragget” crashed through the thin hedge and careered down the slope towards the Tiger. It slid down beside the long barrel of the 88mm. and struck the Tiger at the rear of its right track. The muzzle of the 88 projected two feet beyond the Sherman, so Gorman and crew were like birds sitting on a sportsman’s gun. The Tiger’s crew jumped out with their hands up; but the other Germans turned their attention to the second Sherman. Sergeant Harbinson, its commander, hadn’t a chance. Three shots struck it as it came over the crest and it burst into flames. The driver, Lance-Corporal Watson, and operator, Guardsman Davis, were killed instantly, and the three others wounded and burnt. Guardsmen Melville and Walsh were able to climb out, but only Walsh had the strength to go back again into the blazing hill and extricate the dying Sergeant Harbinson.


This distraction gave Lieutenant Gorman and his crew a moment to get away from the tanks and run to a cornfield on the other side of the lane. “Corporal Baron.” “Sir.” “Melville.” “Sir.” “Scholes.” “Sir.” “Agnew” - there was no reply. The voices of the driver, co-driver and gunner all answered from the depths of the corn, but there was no sign of the operator. In a minute he came crashing through the corn to join them. Guardsman Agnew was the last man out of the tank. As he dropped to the ground he saw four men rushing for a ditch and promptly joined them. They were the German crew; after an exchange of cold stares, Agnew moved out to join his own side.

When Lieutenant John Gorman got an idea into his head he clung to it stubbornly. His present idea was to destroy those German tanks. “You stay here while I get a Firefly,” and he slid away leaving Lance-Corporal Baron and the Guardsmen lying in the cornfield. They lay there in the corn for some time and then began to crawl. They must have crawled in the wrong direction - which is easy enough to do when all you can see is a jungle of stalks - for they got caught in an artillery barrage. They continued to crawl till Melville and Scholes were both wounded by shell splinters. Corporal Baron beat down the bloodstained, shell-torn corn to make a rough bed and stayed to guard and tend his wounded friends until they were picked up by a passing tank. Lieutenant Gorman walked back alone to the orchards round Cagny. There he found what he wanted, his own 17-pdr. gun, which alone would penetrate the heavy armour of a Tiger or Panther. It looked undamaged, but there was no sign of life in or around it. He hammered on the hull. “Sergeant! Sergeant Workmann!” A face popped out of the turret. “He‘s inside, sir. He is dead, sir.” The solid shot that killed the Troop Sergeant had thrown his body back on top of the crew, but had left them and the tank undamaged. They lifted the poor body and Lieutenant Gorman clambered in through the turret. It was no use trying to report to Squadron H.Q. - the air was full of voices all reporting “hornets” - so he returned on his “remount” to the battle.
Lieutenant Anthony Dorman had by now moved up to the ridge and was sitting there nursing his foot and directing the fire of his tank. In Wiltshire he had spent most of his time on training studying dippers and writing long letters to The Field describing the peculiar habits of these birds. But now, in Normandy, “Dipper” Dorman was busy watching “hornets” - the trade name for enemy tanks - and had little time for nature study. Gorman knew exactly where the “hornets” were. Covered by Dorman he moved cautiously forward, avoiding the lane this time and following the line of a thick hedge. The hedge reached up above the level of the turret, so he nosed the Firefly gently forward through it till he could just see the Germans. “Gunner.” Five shots went high and wide, rocketing up into the sky. The gunner’s hand was shaking and the sights were smeared with blood, but five misses in succession was too much. “Take it easy, boy, and have a go at the old Tiger.” The gunner was years older than he, but Lieutenant John Gorman had the paternal manner of a policeman, for he had been reared in, and was going back to, the Royal Ulster Constabulary. The gunner took a deep breath and tried again. “Well done! Two hits on the turret; now put one into the new Tiger.” Three seconds later both the disabled Tiger and the Sherman were burning brightly. The following day, and the following year, they were still there, to be seen by the curious. Lieutenant Gorman, like every other tank officer, had often been told that naval tactics applied to armour, but he was the only one who practised this theory literally. It was a remarkable sight - the Sherman jammed into the side of the Tiger, its turret only a few inches from the barrel of the 88-mm. gun. The German gunner had a power traverse to swing his heavy gun and given another second he could have blown the Sherman to pieces, but he saw it just too late. In size there is not really much to choose between a Tiger and a Sherman, but at close quarters the Tiger completely overshadows the Sherman. It is indeed a few inches taller, but it is the length of the 88-mm. gun and the general impression of the massive power that seem to crush the Sherman.

As too many Germans were now firing at him from all directions, Lieutenant Gorman reversed out of the hedge and turned back to look for Sergeant Harbinson and his crew. He found them by their burnt-out tank and carried them back to the Regimental Aid Post. In his search for the Regimental Aid Post, he found the tanks of Brigade H.Q. lined up in a wood in Cagny. “This made me feel I was very far back,” he said. “It was a most confusing day.”

======

From John Gorman's book;

"By now the Squadron was far ahead and fragments of speech on my radio conveyed that the enemy was by no means obliterated. Then we came on the tanks of 11th Armoured Division, dozens of them mostly on fire, with crews tending to their mates who had managed to get out of their burning tanks. A pitiful sight. There was nothing we could do for them and we could see that the tracked ambulances which had seemed so unnecessary in the morning were now saving lives.

Pressing James Baron on to top speed, with Sergeant Harbinson following 200 yards or so behind, and taking the pylons as my guide, I found the Squadron. It was halted to the west of Cagny and Tony Dorman, “Dipper”, was on his feet, evidently wounded, but gesticulating wildly forward. Since the whole strategy of our leftwards attack on Cagny had been to take it by speed and dash which we had learned on Salisbury Plain and the Yorkshire Wolds, I took it that Dipper was urging us on and we charged up a cornfield, towards a hedge at the top of the rise, and turned the corner into a lane which ran along the hedge. To our right was another hedge at right-angles to the first. When we swung round into the lane it was horror personified. There 300 yards ahead was a Tiger Royal; behind it and to my right were three other Tigers in support.

This is the moment to describe why the Tiger Royal was such a dreadful enemy. The Germans had gone for quality, not quantity, in their tank production. They realized that the US output of tanks would numerically swamp them. So they designed a tank with superior armour, with the famous 88mm anti-aircraft gun of 20 foot in length and the result was a tank which was as close to perfection as any produced in the War.

We had been warned of the existence of such a monster. Corporal Baron and I had discussed it. We had rather light-heartedly concluded that, if confronted by a Tiger Royal, there was only one thing to do and that was to use the naval tactic of ramming, which my Portora hero had demonstrated. Baron agreed that it would be right to use the Sherman’s speed to counteract the rather slow traverse of the Tiger Royal’s 88mm gun turret. We concluded that, mad as it seemed, the only hope in a 75mm Sherman was to ram. When the Tiger Royal came into view its turret was at 90o from us, with the gun towards the 2nd Battalion tanks at the bottom of the rise where I had seen Dipper. We had an HE round our gun, as Albert Scholes, my gunner and I had earlier concluded that this would be more useful than the ineffective allegedly armour-piercing round which was the alternative. This was a lucky decision because, as Corporal Baron was accelerating towards the Tiger Royal, Guardsman Scholes from 50 yards was able to put a high-explosive shell onto the Tiger’s turret. The effect of such an explosion on a crew confined in a small space is quite devastating and as we raced towards it, the Commander’s head emerged from the turret. He mush have been totally bemused by what was happening to his impregnable monster. Here he was, supported by three other Tigers, of almost equal impregnability armour-wise, having used his superb long-range 88mm gun to knock out the tanks in the valley, now dependent on the slow speed of his turret traverse to shoot at an enemy by now only yards from him. The Sherman crashed into the left rear of the Tiger. The German tank crew started to evacuate; the three supporting Tigers were clearly aiming at us. I ordered “Bail Out”. The Germans and ourselves were trapped in the little space between the two tanks. At this moment Sergeant Harbinson emerged from the hedge corner and with incredible bravery took on the three supporting Tigers. “Run, sir, run,” cried Corporal Baron, so I led my crew along the hedge, turned the corner into the tall cornfield and we made a sort of nest there. Passing Sergeant Harbinson’s tank, we saw it had been hit at close range by the Tigers and we concluded that all five crew must be dead. While we were discussing this, a figure suddenly jumped into the “nest”. It was Guardsman Agnew, our front gunner, who had been trapped by the German gun above his escape hatch. When I ordered “Bail out” he found himself having to crawl along the belly of the Sherman in an lengthy escape procedure. When he got out of the turret he glimpsed a number of men running to his right along the hedge, so he followed and jumped into a ditch where they were sheltering. They were the Tiger Royal’s crew; he gave them a hasty salute and ran the other way, by luck finding us.

My feelings at this our first action were certainly not of triumph that we had at least decommissioned the only Tiger Royal seen on the Western Front. They were more that it was a job only half-done, and, having ordered Corporal Baron and the three Guardsmen to stay where they were, I ran through the cornfield towards some woods at the bottom of the rise, about 400 yards away. As I got closer I found there was a Firefly on its own, with apparently no one in it. I climbed on the turret and looked in. There was the body of Sergeant Workman. … The crew helped me to get the body out … There was no hesitation when I ordered the driver to advance over the cornfield to the tall hedge which had been on our right when we turned into the lane and saw the Tiger Royal reversing into the lane, its turret at right-angles to us fortunately.

By easing the Firefly gently into the tall hedge we were able to see the three ordinary Tigers, still in the same position, and the Tiger Royal and Ballyragget locked together. Our first shot was at the Tiger Royal, but it was high; the gunner was shaking. His next one hit the Tiger Royal and we got another shot into Ballyragget, so that it could not be towed, or driven away, by the enemy. The guns of the three Tigers were now pointing towards us, so we went 100 feet further along the hedge and pushed into it again until we could see the enemy. By now they were pointing to their front and we were able to get away four rounds, two of which were hits. Once again at least one of the Tigers was traversing towards us, so we withdrew towards the lane, intending to try the same tactic again. By now we were close to the blazing Sherman and to my joy, three scarecrows … emerged from the ditch. It was Sergeant Harbinson, with his two turret-crew members. W got them onto the flat deck of the Sherman and at full speed headed across the cornfield again, through the wood, and found the Regimental Aid post and our Doctor Ripman, with his team. They dealt with the three casualties, and got Pat Harbinson away that night to the famous burns hospital at Lingfield where Mr McIndoe, the plastic surgeon, operated. Harbinson lived for nearly two weeks, was able to talk to his mother and sister, but as more than 50% of his body was deeply burned he died, as did so many others who experienced the Sherman’s flammability."

==============

From JOE. Vandeleur's book:

"In the afternoon prior to our advance John Gorman of the 2nd Battalion had an extraordinary experience. He ran straight into a German Tiger tank, saw its enormous gun traversing to bear upon him, ordered his driver to ram. Both the German crew and his baled out together. He then ran across to a Firefly (Sherman mounting a 17-pounder) and knocked out another Tiger at point-blank range."

===============

Lance Corporal HORACE JOHN WATSON 2721048, 2nd Bn., Irish Guards who died age 28 on 18 July 1944
Son of George Herbert and Agnes Bertha Watson, of Harlow, Essex.
Remembered with honour BAYEUX MEMORIAL
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 12, Column 2.

DAVIES, WILLIAM THOMAS Guardsman Mentioned in Despatches 2719685, 2nd Bn., Irish Guards who died age 26 on 18 July 1944
Son of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Davies; husband of Kathleen Mary Davies, of Kettering, Northamptonshire.
Remembered with honour BAYEUX MEMORIAL
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 12, Column 2.

Lance Serjeant HUGH PATRICK HARBINSON 2719491, 2nd Bn., Irish Guards who died age 38 on 28 July 1944
Son of James W. Harbinson and Emily Harbinson, of Newry.
Remembered with honour DONAGHMORE (ST. BARTHOLOMEW) CHURCH OF IRELAND CHURCHYARD

Lance Serjeant GEOFFREY GEORGE WORKMAN 2719982, 2nd Bn., Irish Guards who died age 26
on 18 July 1944
Son of George and Ruby Gladys Workman, of Kilpuk, Madras, India.
Remembered with honour
BANNEVILLE-LA-CAMPAGNE WAR CEMETERY

==============

Obit for John Madden
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/IG%20MEDAL%20RECOMMENDATIONS/OBIT-MAJJOHNMADDEN1200dpi.jpg

Info on John Gorman
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/johngorman.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_John_Gorman
Where he menitons Baron and Dorman
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freenorthernireland/message/12156

Info on James Baron, who died in August 2002.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7705597&queryType=1&resultcount=3
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/IG%20MEDAL%20RECOMMENDATIONS/JAMESBARONMM.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/IG%20MEDAL%20RECOMMENDATIONS/OBIT-SERGJAMESBARON1200dpi.jpg

Albert Scholes died in 2000. If anyone has any further information on him, I would appreciate it if they could send it to me.

 

The Guards Chapel at Wellington Barracks was badly damaged during WWII by a V1 bomb. The roof collapsed killing 121people, including civilians.

From pg 74 A Soldier's Story, J.O.E. Vandeleur.
"A few days after D-Day the battalion broke into two groups: walking men were to embark at Tilbury, vehicles were to be embarked at Portsmouth. We were to reunite at Arromanches in Normandy. I took half of the battalion up to Tilbury by lorry and we encamped near the London Docks. During the move we were astonished to see peculiar-looking things in the sky. They were the first of the V-1 bombs which were falling on London. The dockers became very perturbed and demanded to join their families in order to give them moral support. We had therefore to load six ships alone much to our disgust. Just as the convoy was about to sail a telephone message reached us, telling us that the Guards Chapel had been hit by a V-bomb and nearly all the congregation killed."
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/A%20SOLDIERS%20STORY/74.jpg

From IG, 3Bn. War Diary:
“LONDON DOCKS 19th June 1944
The vehicle party [ed: as opposed to marching party] today embarked on the Liberty ship “SAMPHILL”. During their stay in the Marshalling Camp near WANSTEAD they had several unpleasant experiences from the German “pilot less aircraft”. They were allowed to go into LONDON one evening, which somewhat surprised everyone.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/66/a5098566.shtml
http://www2.army.mod.uk/coldstreamguardsband/history/guards_chapel.htm
http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_maintxtc.html
http://www.guards-shop.com/chapel.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guards_Chapel,_Wellington_Barracks

Irish Guardsmen killed:
GILLIAT, JOHN Major63033, Irish Guards who died age 30 on 18 June 1944
Son of John Francis Grey Gilliat and Lilian Florence Maud Gilliat, of Sunningdale, Berkshire.
Remembered with honour BROOKWOOD CEMETERY
Grave/Memorial Reference: St. Chad's Avenue, Grave 209123.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2929563

GIBSON, DENNIS GEORGE, Guardsman 2719737, Irish Guards who died on 18 June 1944
Husband of L. J. Gibson, of East Croydon, Surrey.
Remembered with honour WANDSWORTH (EARLSFIELD) CEMETERY
Grave/Memorial Reference: Block 28. Grave 41.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2429586

LIVERMORE, PERCY LEONARD Lance Serjeant 2720194, Irish Guards who died age 31 on 18 June 1944
Son of John and Alice L. Livermore, of Harold Wood husband of D. P. Livermore.
Remembered with honour HORNCHURCH CEMETERY
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. A. Grave 1359.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2721942

Photos courtesy of Forum member AndyBaldEagle
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/WAR%20GRAVES/Livermore.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/WAR%20GRAVES/Livermore2.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/WAR%20GRAVES/Livermore3.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll119/dbf_bucket/WAR%20GRAVES/HornchurchCemetery.jpg

PHILLIPS, LESLIE CHARLES Guardsman 2722011, Irish Guards who died age 24 on 18 June 1944
Son of Harold Charles and Lucy Phillips; husband of Ellen Phillips, of East Putney, London.
Remembered with honour BROOKWOOD MILITARY CEMETERY
Grave/Memorial Reference: 33A. B. 12.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2928548


Courtesy of AndyBaldEagle, photo of memorial plaque in Guards Chapel:


Courtesy of Geoff's search engine, a list of names found using Guards Chapel as criteria; click on the number to be taken to cwgc record:

001 ALLFREY, D - 18/06/1944
002 ARNOLD, PLM - 18/06/1944
003 ATKINS, A - 16/06/1944
004 ATKINS, P - 18/06/1944
005 BERRY, AE - 18/06/1944
006 BOSTOCK, J - 18/06/1944
007 CALDICOTT, HV - 18/06/1944
008 CATTARNS, AE - 18/06/1944
009 CLARK, BV - 18/06/1944
010 COLEMAN, E - 18/06/1944
011 COLEMAN, CJ - 18/06/1944
012 COLEMAN, AF - 18/06/1944
013 COURTNEY, SL - 18/06/1944
014 CROOKE, OL - 18/06/1944
015 DAVIES, B - 18/06/1944
016 DEADFIELD, CG - 18/06/1944
017 DEWAR-DURIE, IE - 18/06/1944
018 GARDNER, BI - 18/06/1944
019 GARLAND, EKK - 18/06/1944
020 GIDLEY-KITCHIN, DH - 18/06/1944
021 GORDON-LENNOX, E - 18/06/1944
022 GYE, DP - 18/06/1944
023 HALL, AW - 18/06/1944
024 HORTON, GALB - 18/06/1944
025 IRVING, AE - 18/06/1944
026 JAMESON, P - 18/06/1944
027 JAMESON, M - 18/06/1944
028 JONES, EA - 18/06/1944
029 KEANE, AGL - 18/06/1944
030 LANE, SB - 18/06/1944
031 LUMLEY-SMITH, M - 18/06/1944
032 LUMLEY-SMITH, GMM - 18/06/1944
033 MAULTBY, MA - 18/06/1944
034 MCDONALD, MD - 18/06/1944
035 MILLEN, EA - 18/06/1944
036 MILLEN, MM - 18/06/1944
037 MILTON-WILLMOTT, D - 18/06/1944
038 MITCHELL, VM - 18/06/1944
039 MITCHELL, JL - 18/06/1944
040 MOSCROP, A - 18/06/1944
041 NEILSON, HR - 18/06/1944
042 NORRIS, ME - 18/06/1944
043 NORTHING, L - 18/06/1944
044 OGDEN, EWC - 18/06/1944
045 PENN, CO - 18/06/1944
046 ROPER, PM - 18/06/1944
047 SARGENT, MJ - 18/06/1944
048 SHERIDAN, RM - 18/06/1944
049 SHOOTER, EM - 18/06/1944
050 SMITH, OGA - 18/06/1944
051 SOUTER, M - 18/06/1944
052 THOMSON, I - 18/06/1944
053 THORN, E - 18/06/1944
054 WALL, VM - 18/06/1944
055 WELLER, AL - 18/06/1944
056 WILSON, AL - 18/06/1944
057 WILSON, V - 18/06/1944
058 WORRALL, HM - 18/06/1944

QS

 

Have you any mention in the War Diary of Captain Henry Fitzherbert, 2nd, Btn., k.i.a. 2nd April, 1945? I have read the account in D.J.L. Fitzgerald's History of the Irish Guards in WW II, but would like to know if there is anything further about Capt. Fitzherbert.
Belville


Belville,
Have PM'd you.

Diane

 

Hi Tom,

As a veteran your opinion is especially appreciated. My father is rather surprised about the interest I have shown. Don't know why though, I have been listening to him for over 40 years now. I spent my 'down time' this week reading up a bit more on the other Regiments serving alongside. Hope to get up some more info on the other IG bns. as soon as I can.

I get rather depressed about the old OMG 'debate', references to Guards' tea breaks, ponderous formations, unwillingness to take casualties et al, and how it seems to overshadow everything else. Whilst I also prefer not to get bogged down in the what ifs which pop up occasionally, asking why is perfectly natural. The War Diary and the History etc are a great starting point. Any novice who, like me, has an interest and wishes to really learn beyond the veneer, should first look at the casualty stats and ask themselves what that means ...

Below are two lads from my Dad's training squad who didn't make it home. One aged 19 killed at Sourdeval on 11 Aug 44, the other aged 20 killed in Holland on 21 Sept 44 and whom my father buried alongside other Micks from the 2nd Bn. who were also killed that day. I think they gave it 100%. Stories about men like these are the ones that are rarely told. They didn't get any recommendations for medals, nor were they mentioned in despatches; their names do not appear in the WD, nor were their letters home published. Admittedly I am priviledged to have heard from my father about the men he fought alongside; yet some watch a movie and are satisfied with those accounts. What a pity.

Thanks again for taking the time to read and for your comment.

Regards,
Diane

 

I have two pictures of Guardsmen's graves named on page one. Please do with these as you see fit. Superb work lads.


I'll have a look through my pictures for any more if you'd like.

Mostonian, much appreciated. I will update my records. Any further help would be great. Not all up yet. This deals mostly with 3bn. Have others in same cemeteries for 2bn. and am currently preparing 1bn lists.
Cheers,
d

 

Hello Mark, welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy it here.

Great to hear from someone who has also has a connection with 3bn. Nice to see your grandfather's medals, must be very proud of him. Do you have any photos of him you could put up? I am always keen to see squad photos too.

Do you know much about your grandfather's service, about when he joined etc.?
Would be great if you could share some stories you may have.

Just out of curiosity, the ribbons seem to have gotten a little muddled over the years, but what is the one on the 39-45 Star? Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | Veterans | Medals | War Medal

Regards,
Diane

 

For Kennedi, information about 3rd Battalion, where they were and what they were doing around the 20th April 1945:

From History of Irish Guards in WW2, Part V, Chapter XIV Across The Rhine, pg 575:
“ZEVEN was taken on the 24th [April 1945] by the Grenadiers and the Coldstream. Till then the Irish Group remained in ELSDORF, being shelled by the Germans and twice bombed, once by the Germans and once by the Americans. Neither the shelling nor the bombing caused serious casualties, but they reduced ELSDORF to a heap of ruins. “In the execution of the 21st Army Group operations in the north,” says the Supreme Commander’s report, “the resistance encountered by the British Second Army in its attacks towards Bremen and Hamburg was persistent.” Following the fall of Bremen on the 26th April, however, the situation changed.”

This map will show you whereabouts all the place names are. The area is to the north of Hannover and half way between Bremen and Hamburg. If you zoom out and in from the map it’ll give you a clearer idea.
http://www.maplandia.com/germany/niedersachsen/luneburg/rotenburg/frankenbostel/

From 3RD Battalion Irish Guards War Diary:
18th April 1945
Towards evening there was an Orders Group SOUTH of SOLTAU at which were told that the Brigade Group would concentrate in that area for the night, before striking WEST to TOSTEDT the following day with the object of capturing ZEVEN and cutting the Autobahn linking BREMEN and HAMBURG.

19th April 1945
The Grenadier Group, who were in the lead, crossed the railway lne in TOSTEDT at 1400hrs, and only minor opposition succeeded in cutting the Autobahn and pushing on to within 3 miles of the final objective. The Battalion Group, moving up behind, took over the responsibility for the area SITTENSEN and the Autobahn crossings NORTH and WEST of it, where we remained for the night.

20th April 1945
The Grenadier Group set off at first light for ZEVEN but soon met heavy opposition and were compelled to halt. Meanwhile the Battalion Group had been ordered to send a Company, Squadron Group to ELSDORF. Apart from a few mines the village was occupied without incident and patrols were sent to WISTEDT and WEHLDORF. The latter patrol being on the main ROTENBURG-ZEVEN road, obtained a satisfactory shoot at enemy transport moving NORTH from ROTENBURG. By evening the Autobahn from SITTENSEN to ELSDORF was clear and in use. A number of prisoners were taken during the day mostly from the Grossdeutschland Brigade.

21st April 1945
A strong counter-attack, which was subsequently proved to have been made by the 2 Battalions of 104 Panzer Grenadier Regiment (15 Panzer Grenadier Division), was launched, supporte by Artillery, Mortars, and Self-Propelled guns, on to the area ELSDORF-WISTEDT shortly after first light. The situation was serious for a time, as a Platoon and Troop occupying WISTEDT were surrounded and cut off from the main body. Only one tank with the Tank Commander and Platoon Commander with 4 men managed to get back to the Company area. Elsewhere in spite of bitter fighting and heavy shelling on our forward areas, the enemy attack had been beaten off by midday. Another Coy/ Squadron Group moved to FRANKENBOSTEL and Battalion HQ to RUSPEL. At about dusk 16 bombs were dropped on ELSDORF fortunately causing very few casualties. The firing of Verey lights from the ground seemed to be co-ordinated in the tactical picture, but it was not followed by any counter-attack.

22nd April 1945
At about 0200hrs a Self-Propelled gun made a demonstration to the EAST of ELSDORF but when the Defensive fire tasks were fired, it quickly withdrew again. Apart from active patrolling by our troops which ensured that the enemy were still in the area, the day was a quiet one with no sign of enemy activity on the scale of the previous day. Prisoners taken during the day tended to confirm the impression that an enemy withdrawal was imminent.

23rd April 1945
At about 0300hrs a single German with a Bazooka hit and destroyed a tank in the Squadron HQ in ELSDORF. Apart from this remarkable incident and for some sporadic shelling on FRANKENBOSTEL during the early hours, little was seen or hear of the enemy. The clearing of ROTENBURG by the 32nd Guards Brigade and the approach of the 53rd Welsh Division from the south seemed to have provoked a general withdrawal towards BREMEN.

24TH April 1945
The Battalion continued to fulfil its operational rold in the area ELSDORF. During the day the Grenadier and Coldstream Groups attacked and captured ZEVEN assisted by a demonstration by No 4 Coy from the area FRANKENBOSTEL.


...more to follow

Diane

 

Kennedi,

Two photos taken on 20th April 1945. From collection held by Imperial War Museum.

The description: "A camouflaged Sherman Firefly of the Irish Guards and infantry guard a section of the Bremen-Hamburg autobahn, 20 April 1945."

 

Welcome to the forum kenziie.
I don't think the bit about him being killed on a bridge across the Rhine is true.
They were miles away from it by 20th April.
You've some great photos in your profile album.