3rd Battalion, Grenadier Guards

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by graeme, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi

    Would anyone have the War Diary, please for

    3rd Battalion, Grenadier Guards for Wednesday 9 August 1944.

    Or any info as to what they were doing on or around this date,

    Many thanks,

    Graeme
     
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  2. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

  3. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Graeme.

    I have Nicholson's Regimental History so will check out where 3 GREN GDS were on that date. They were somewhere north of Rome, probably near Florence, but I will confirm the exact spot later.

    Regards

    FdeP
     
  4. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Graeme, sounds like minden1759 will turn up the information you need. But if you'd still like to obtain the August '44 diary, I can arrange that for you.

    The National Archives reference for it is:
    - WO 170/1349, 3 Grenadier Guards 1944 Jan-Dec

    Lee
     
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  5. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    Graeme, 3 GG were in the vacinity of San Clemente on the 9th of August.

    Which is at 43.7202, 11.4560 on google maps or here for the quick link to the location.

    They were advancing east of florence in the area of Leccio (just south of Pontassive) at the time.

    If you could let me know why this day is of interest I might be able to fill in the blanks for you.
     
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  6. Rotherfield

    Rotherfield Senior Member

    Hi Grahame
    I have the Grenadier Guards 1939 -45 books the 3r Grenadiers acount that I have reads in the summary; "Advance up the East bank of the Tiber, the 3rd Bn engaged in several minor actions - The bulk of the German Army escapes to the North and holds a delaying line betwen Perugia and Lake Tresimene - Grenadiers batle for Perugia - Entry into Perugia by the Grenadiers - Fighting beyond the City - Move to approaches of Arezzo - The 1st Guards Brigade attack hills South-West of Arezzo - Capture of the Town - Advance up the Arno Valley - Vist of H.M. The King - The Grenadiers within sight of the Gothic Line.
    The actual date of 9th August is not recorded the nearest date is the 7th August A patrol led by Lt Leeke went forward to attack a German occupied house standing on aspur a hundred yds from the Arno banks. At a distance of a few feet from the house Lt Leeke was so severely wounded that he died later that night. 3 of his Guardsmen who were left wounded on the ground, were treated by the Germans in a brutal manner which tey normally reserve for Italian partisans. Far from giving them medical attention they kicked them to prevent them sleeping and poured water in the dust before thier eyes. These men were rescued after 2 days of this torture by Capt Peget-Cooke MBE a Grenadier Officer serving at 1st Guards Brigae H.Q.
    It then goes on to say "Twice more the Grenadiers moved into the front line before the Brigade reached the level of Florence, but on neither occassion wer they severley tried.
    As a foot note, There is a Guardsmen who lives in Epsom / Ewell who was with the 3rd Bn after being transferred from the 6th his name is Len Bozeat M.M. and is now 91 years young
    Hope the above is of some use to you
    Rotherfield
     
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  7. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Morning All,

    Many thanks for your input, all appreciated.

    I have a man on the Walsall RoH died this date and had no information at all as to what the 3rd GG were doing.

    Many thanks again,

    Graeme
     
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  8. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    Thank you, I thought that may be the case. I have to admit my first thought was the same as Rotherfields in that it was most probably a case of died of wounds from a seperate incident, most likely the patrol Mike described.

    Unfortunately, and rather annoyingly, my 3 GG war diaries stop at the beginning of August.

    I think San Clemente and San Mezzano ( I have companies from 3 GG in both towns) were reserve positions, but this does not rule out the possibility of accidental death or casualties from enemy artillery. But Im going to stick my neck out and hazard a guess that it is likely to be DOW from the 7th.
     
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  9. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi Phaethon,

    I agree, the patrol seems most likely,

    many thanks for your help,

    Graeme
     
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  10. jarvis10

    jarvis10 Member

    william hamer 53 revival st,bloxwich 1940s.jpg hi graeme

    I've been extremely lucky to have stummbled across your post.I have been trying to find out about my grand fathers brother who died in italy on 9th august 1944.It's something that the family knows very little about.He is the one you found in the ROH from walsall.His name was Guardsman William Hamer 2611470 3Bn Grenadier Guards aged 35 who was buried in Arezzo cemetery.I would be gratefull for any further information you may have discovered and if you can tell me if there is anyway i can discover if William was one of the 3 men who was wounded and captured on the 7th as described in Rotherfields post.I've posted a picture of William (known as Bill) for posterity.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    In the Regimental History he is listed as Killed In Action with 3GG.


    Unlike Lt Leeke as described in Rotherfield's post #7, who is listed as Died of Wounds, attached to 3 Welsh Guards.

    3 WG had so many casualties that they didnt have enough men so a company of Grenadiers all of whom were ex-6th Bn men were attached , they formed No 2 (Grenadier) Company, 3WG.
    Therefore your Great-Uncle wouldnt have been one of those wounded men mentioned.

    .
     
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  12. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi Jarvis10,

    Magnificent picture, many thanks for posting.

    I am still struggling with the War Diary for this date but her is the little I have on him.

    William was the son of Richard G.T. and Hannah (nee Lawrence) Hamer of 53, Green Rock Lane, Blakenall, his mother predeceasing him in 1930.
    He was married to Edith Caddick at Walsall in 1939 and resided at 53, Revival Street, Bloxwich with his wife and their daughter, Jean, who was 2½ years of age when William was killed.
    After leaving Elmore Green School, Bloxwich William joined the Grenadier Guards and after completing his time took employment as a miner for William Harrison Limited at their Brownhills colliery. Called up on reserve at the outbreak of war he was drafted to France but evacuated from Dunkirk after France fell.
    He was then drafted to North Africa in October 1942 and from there to Italy where he was killed in the ‘Advance to Florence’.
    At the time of his death his battalion was advancing up the east bank of the River Tiber and were involved in several minor skirmishes.
    William is buried in Arezzo War Cemetery in Grave VI.E.14. He was 35 years of age and is commemorated on the Walsall roll of honour and the roll of honour at Christ Church, Blakenall Heath albeit as ‘Hammer’.

    Is there anything to correct, alter or add ??

    Regards,

    Graeme
     
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  13. jarvis10

    jarvis10 Member

    Hi Owen

    Thanks for the clarification that Guardsman Hamer wasn't one of the unfortunate 3 captured on the 7th August.It's not nice to think a family member may have been treated is such a way.

    Many Thanks,

    Darren
     
  14. jarvis10

    jarvis10 Member

    Hi Graeme

    All the information you supplied is correct to the best of my knowledge.No one in the family new about the Roll of Honour in the church,even though we have all been in there more than once.The misspelling of his name as Hammer is something that occurs alot much to the annoyance of my mothers side of the family.I shall pop into Christ Church and investigate.Not sure if it would be possible to get it altered back to Hamer as a small thankyou for the sacrifice Bill gave.It would be nice to as the 70th anniversary of his death approaches.

    Many Thanks,

    Darren
     
  15. jarvis10

    jarvis10 Member

    sr1.jpg sr2.jpg sr3.jpg sr4.jpg sr5.jpg sr6.jpg sr7.jpg

    hi graeme

    Thought you may be interested in William Hamers service record that has arrived recently.If i've correctly deciphered his records he left his HB and joined the 1St Bn at the outbreak of war, only later moving across to the 3rd Bn (date unknown).As he had joined the 3rd Bn on signing up first time around in 1928 i had presumed he had served throughout in the 3rd Bn.The other relevant information in his records is that it states he died of "gun shots".Hope this helps to update your own records.

    Regards,

    Darren
     
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  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Are these all the papers you received? The Army Form B103 is usually the most helpful form - it has detail that is transferred to the statement of services form.

    I appreciate Guards papers (unlike MOD held papers) may have been culled so the B103 may have been destroyed but if I was you I would ask GG Headquarters if they have his B103 (may be more than 1).

    Just to clarify the detail from the forms-

    On mobilisation at the outbreak of war he was posted to The Training Battalion (TB) - as he had been on the reserve for almost 8 years he would have required some retraining.

    He was posted to the Holding Battalion in March 1940 (for public duties in London and to provide reinforcements to BEF.

    From there he was sent to the Base Depot in France as a potential reinforcement in early May 1940. The German advance started before he could be posted to a GG Battalion - both 1st & 3rd with BEF - so he only joined 1st GG in June 1940 when the Battalion was reformed after Dunkirk.

    As you say he was posted to 3rd GG at some time before they took part in the Operation Torch invasion of North Africa in November 1942.

    Regards

    Steve Y
     
  17. jarvis10

    jarvis10 Member

    hi steve

    Thanks for the above information.All help is more than welcome from this amateur.I did wonder if there was information missing as it seemed a little brief to me.I will chase GG headquarters for anyother records it maybe holding.It was intersting to see he wasn't actually posted to 1Bn to after Dunkirk.As a family we were aware that he was on the Dunkirk beaches,but just assumed he was with a Grenadier Guards unit throughout.William is just one of four family members i have to trace.I can see the future being both fascinating and frustrating in equal measures!

    Regards

    Darren
     
  18. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Darren,

    Just have a look at a few of the threads posted under the Service Record sub forum and you will see various B103's (Active Service Casualty Form) so you have an idea of the detail that can be on the forms.

    I got a B103 when I received my fathers papers from CG Headquarters 2 years ago - but that does not mean that the other Guards Regiments retained their soldiers B103's!

    Good Luck.

    Steve
     
  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Darren.

    If Gdsm Hamer was in 3 GREN GDS in Apr and May 44, he would have been in Cassino town in the build up to and during the Fourth Battle.

    That was done feat of endurance.

    FdeP
     
  20. jarvis10

    jarvis10 Member

    Hi Steve

    I will have a look at the B103 forms.I will post any other forms I may receive from GG headquarters (fingers crossed).

    Regards

    Darren.
     

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