38th (Welsh) Infantry Division war diary: 1939-42

Discussion in 'Higher Formations' started by Pember, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. Pember

    Pember Junior Member

    I would be interested to know if anyone has copies of the war diary for 38th (Welsh) Infantry Division.

    My late-grandfather served in the division, with the 2nd Herefords, during Sept 1939 - Aug 1942. At the moment, I am particularly interested in the months Nov 1940 and Nov 1941.

    Any help shall be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    One of the most significant developments in the 38th Diviison was that they were the pioneers of centralised command of field artillery radio to control,the fire of the divisional artillery as a single fire unit. This reversed the disastrous fragmentation of artillery which took place after drawing some flawed lessons from the Fall of France. There was a big firepower demonstration in early 1942. This isn't anything to do with the Herefords, but is probably the most important thing that the Division did in the war.
     
  3. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Sheldrake, the most important thing... I'd broadly agree that this was their greatest contribution to the wider army thanks to Parham.

    Do you have any photos or other info on your grandfather? As he joined in Sept 39 he must have joined up just before hostilities when 38 Div was an utter shambles and commanded by Maj-Gen Bevin 'Swill-Tubs' Wilson, who was also in command of 53 Div. On paper another Maj-Gen commands 38 Div but in reality until October (if I recall correctly) Wilson was in command of both, along with much of Wales - a messy, ridiculous administrative situation with no admin personnel.

    38 Div was relatively well equipped - all things said - but was the spawn of the Doubling of the TA, which greatly hindered getting the trained 53 Div battle ready and likewise hit when all those with Reserved Occupations were recalled to industry.

    38 Div's major contribution was their excellent Battle School, which the great Tasker Watkins praised at great length, which substantial cadres of men went through.

    I don't have copies of their War Diary as its all home service and 53 Div is of a higher priority, but know their history well from studying 53 Div/38 Div's somewhat symbiotic relationship throughout the war in terms of passing cadres across.
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    You will get more detail on what he and his unit was doing from these two war diaries rather than the Divisional ones

    WO 166/4338 INFANTRY: 2 Herefordshire Regiment. 1939 Sept.- 1941 Dec.
    WO 166/8723 2 Herefordshire Regiment 1942 Jan.- Dec.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  5. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here are the three pages on the 2nd Battalion, The Herefordshire Regiment from the regimental history:

    Hill, T.J.B. Kt. Col. Manuforti: The History of the Herefordshire Regiment 1860-1967. Stroud, Gloucestershire: Alan Sutton Publishing, 1996.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Pember

    Pember Junior Member

    Thank you Sheldrake & Swiper for the further pieces of information on 38 Div!

    Also, Andy & dryan67 thank you for the suggestions re. 2nd Herefords.

    I should mention that I do already have copies of the war diary of the 2nd Herefords, from Sept 1939 to Aug 1942, as well the regimental history Manu Forti. However, I am finding that these are lacking some key pieces of information, such as orders relating to planned overseas service of the Bn/Bde/Div or changes to equipment or establishment of formations within the Bde/Div, which I am hoping to be able to find in the 38 Div war diary.

    I would happily make the trip to Kew myself, but am not living in the UK.
     
  7. Pember

    Pember Junior Member

    I must say that I have been a little confused by newspaper references to 2nd Herefords as being part of 159th Infantry Brigade in Aug 1939. Also, contradictory references to Div Signals being 53rd Div Signals vs. 38th Div Signals, also in Aug 1939.

    I understand that units of 38th Div were administered and embodied in 53rd Div, until 19th Sept 1939, when 38th Div began to operate as a separate formation. Would it therefore follow that 2nd Herefords were actually part of 159th Brigade until then - explaining the reference to that effect in Aug 1939?

    My grandfather joined-up in early 1939, before the outbreak of war. Unfortunately, he did not keep many photos from the war years and I have been struggling to find any from that time. I would also be most interested in any relating to 2nd Herefords during 1939-42.
     
  8. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

  9. Pember

    Pember Junior Member

    Thank you!
     

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