31st Fld Rgt. Escapers Switzerland

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by ADM199, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    One for nicks.
    Escapers into Switzerland Post Italian Armistace

    captured --Camp -Int.Switz.
    Dvr.Burke P.G.J. 884337 -- 15/12/41 --53 --29/10/43
    L/Bdr.Drury J.W. 842945 -- 15/12/41 --53 --29/9/43
    Gnr.Gifford G. 1118013 -- 15/12/41 --53 --1/10/43
    Gnr.Gordon T.E. 853208 -- 15/12/41-- 53 --22/9/43
    Sgt.Hall B.K. 855701 -- 15/12/41 -- 53-- 2/10/43
    Gnr.Hayne J. 790897 -- 14/12/41 -- 53 --26/9/43
    Bdr.Heys F.S. 848814 -- 14/12/41 --133--15/9/44
    Gnr.Laidler J. 839232 -- 15/12/41 --53-- 19/10/43
    Gnr.McGann F. 985232 -- 15/12/41 --53-- 28/9/43
    Gnr.Maynell G. 1103276 -- 14/12/41 --?? --27/9/43
    Gnr.Phillips D.Mc. 3129100 -15/12/41 --53 --21/12/43
    Gnr.Purnell H. 988550 -- 15/12/41 --50 --22/10/43
    Gnr.Pycroft H. 1103302 -- 14/12/41 -- 53 --19/9/43
    Gnr.Robinson H.R. 898125 --15/12/41-- 53 --24/10/43
    Dvr.Rush W. 783566 -- 14/12/41 --53 --4/2/44
    Gnr.Sadler G. 863658 -- 15/12/41 --53 --20/9/43
    Lt.Shorey R.D. 113951 -- 13/12/41--35 --21/9/43


    Brian
     
  2. nicks

    nicks Very Senior Member

    Brian, thank you very interesting.

    All these men would have been captured at or around Point 204 (Alem Hamza, Cyrenica) on the dates that you have given, along with my Granddad. I posted a piece about the action on another thread.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/all-anniversaries/16699-operation-crusader-1941-a.html

    My Granddad is very reluctant to talk about his experiences but he has told me that he lived in the hills with a local family, after walking out of the camp when the Italians surrendered. I will show him the list as I am certain that he was interned in Campo 53 along with many of these men.

    Nick
     
  3. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Nick,
    perhaps the list will get a little more from your Grandad. Ask him if he remembers a change of Camp Commandant just before the Armistace.

    Colonel Petragnani took over on the 3rd September.

    Brian
     
  4. nicks

    nicks Very Senior Member

    Nick,
    perhaps the list will get a little more from your Grandad. Ask him if he remembers a change of Camp Commandant just before the Armistace.

    Colonel Petragnani took over on the 3rd September.

    Brian

    Brian

    I will see whether he remembers him, like you say it may lead to more.

    Nick
     
  5. nicks

    nicks Very Senior Member

    I spoke to my Granddad over the weekend he did remember a lot of the names on the list although he did not elaborate too much.

    He didn't remember Colonel Petragnani although he did talk a little on the events that occurred around the Armistice. On 8th September 1943 they were paraded on the football pitch by the Senior British Officer and were basically told to stay put and not to try to escape as he was expecting an Allied landing at Ancona in a few days. However by the 15th September there was no sign of any landings therefore ignoring the threat of court martial my Granddad left the camp along with many others, I believe he stayed with Italian families in the mountains until early 1944.

    Nick
     
  6. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    Its a bit of a coincidence (but then it always is in this forum) but I had just noticed at the back of Quilters no dishonourable name: the name of a guardsman (service no 2657262) from the 3rd bn coldstream; who was listed as passing away in switzerland (escaped). I am guessing the COD was wounds sustained in the escape. Is there any way to find out what may have happened? And does anyone know of any other stories such as this?
     
  7. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    I spoke to my Granddad over the weekend he did remember a lot of the names on the list although he did not elaborate too much.

    He didn't remember Colonel Petragnani although he did talk a little on the events that occurred around the Armistice. On 8th September 1943 they were paraded on the football pitch by the Senior British Officer and were basically told to stay put and not to try to escape as he was expecting an Allied landing at Ancona in a few days. However by the 15th September there was no sign of any landings therefore ignoring the threat of court martial my Granddad left the camp along with many others, I believe he stayed with Italian families in the mountains until early 1944.

    Nick

    Nick there was the famous,or should I say the infamous Standfast order to S.B.Os.in the Italian Camps. Some Officers took it too literally.Others were much wiser and allowed the men to make their own way.
    Without looking through my Files I would guess the S.B.O. was R.A.M.C. as I remember one such Officer Arming Guardsmen with an order to prevent any prisoners walking out.

    Glad you Grandad has talked a little about his time as a P.O.W. Hopefully next time at Kew there will be time to copy a couple of reports that could stimulate his memory further.

    Brian
     
  8. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Its a bit of a coincidence (but then it always is in this forum) but I had just noticed at the back of Quilters no dishonourable name: the name of a guardsman (service no 2657262) from the 3rd bn coldstream; who was listed as passing away in switzerland (escaped). I am guessing the COD was wounds sustained in the escape. Is there any way to find out what may have happened? And does anyone know of any other stories such as this?

    His Death would have been reported by the Red Cross to the British Authorities.
    The reason for death would probably not have been caused by wounds when Escaping from the Camp unless it was one that the Germans quickly occupied. I can't see anyone with serious wounds getting through the Mountain passes into Switzerland. There were several caught up in an Avalanche and were not seen again.
    Do you have the mans name as I might be able to find something.

    Brian
     
  9. nicks

    nicks Very Senior Member

    Glad you Grandad has talked a little about his time as a P.O.W. Hopefully next time at Kew there will be time to copy a couple of reports that could stimulate his memory further.

    Brian

    Brian

    I would appreciate any information that may help my Grandad tell more about his in in the camps, I say camps as I have just remembered that he mentioned that he had been transferred to P.G 53 from P.G 59 (Servigliano), to make way for an influx of American prisoners not sure of the date though.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Nick.
    I've just registered the 31st Field Regiment interest & family connection while looking for something else.
    Just checking, have you got a book by 'Owen Roberts' - '31st field Regiment RA, A Record'?

    I'm guessing that you have, but in case not, it's a rather nice 'Veteran produced' book on the Unit's WW2 experiences. Lots of maps, photographs etc. Not the best reproduction on the photos but a decent title overall. Got it from Woolwich a while back.

    ~A
     
  11. nicks

    nicks Very Senior Member

    Nick.
    I've just registered the 31st Field Regiment interest & family connection while looking for something else.
    Just checking, have you got a book by 'Owen Roberts' - '31st field Regiment RA, A Record'?

    I'm guessing that you have, but in case not, it's a rather nice 'Veteran produced' book on the Unit's WW2 experiences. Lots of maps, photographs etc. Not the best reproduction on the photos but a decent title overall. Got it from Woolwich a while back.

    ~A

    Yes I do have a copy, like you say it is lacking a little when it comes to photographic quality but on the whole is a very good account of the regiment's involvement in the war. Incidentally my Grandad is 4th from the left in the photograph labelled Plate 1.

    Nick
     
  12. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Brian

    I would appreciate any information that may help my Grandad tell more about his in in the camps, I say camps as I have just remembered that he mentioned that he had been transferred to P.G 53 from P.G 59 (Servigliano), to make way for an influx of American prisoners not sure of the date though.

    Regards,

    Nick

    Nick,
    here's what I have on the two camps.
    PG 53 Sforza costa (Macerata)On a Plain 460ft Alt. Large stone Building "Linen Weaving Mill". 25 Acres in Area. Camp in sections and sub-sections.2km from Urbisaglia. Strength 30/6/43 7 Officers,6209 O.Rs. 6204 British I Australian,11 S/Africans. Some other Rank transfered to Germany 25/7/43. Position 43.18N - 13.22E.

    PG 59 Servigliano (Piceno) Some wooden Huts some Brick Buildings. The Camp was used for P.O.W. in 1915 - 1918. Strength 30/6/43:-
    5 Officers 344 O.Rs. 323 British,11 Australians.15 S/Africans. Position 43.04N - 13.29E.
    There was a Military Hospital close by:- Ascoli(Piceno) Old Palace with Colonnade and gardens,in Town. Strength 9/4/43 was 5 British O.Rs.

    Hope this helps.

    Brian
     
  13. nicks

    nicks Very Senior Member

    Brian

    Thank you for the information. I will look at it in more detail in the near future once I can get back online without having to borrow my daughters laptop, my PC went bang earlier this evening.:mad:

    Regards,

    Nick
     

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