3 RTR crew

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by 13thbattalion, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. 13thbattalion

    13thbattalion Active Member

    Hi, does anyone have any information about 3RTR from June 6th -28th? I'm trying to find information about a friends father who was with them in Normandy. We think his tank was knocked out on the 28th. His three mates in the tank were all killed but he survived. The names of the tank crew were:
    Tpr. Clifford Haworth 3448937
    Tpr. Hammond Lord 3452347
    Sgt. Percy Britt 7882327

    My friend knows nothing about his dads time in Normandy, so it'd be nice to find some unit diaries, find out what tank squadron he was etc.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated.
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Best to start with a copy of his service record - Request records of deceased service personnel - GOV.UK that way there will be less red herrings

    After that you can search/copy War Diaries as you will know exactly which regiment etc he was in

    Rank:TrooperService No:3452347Date of Death:28/06/1944Age:30Regiment/Service:Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C. 3rd Panel Reference: Panel 8, Column 3. Memorial:BAYEUX MEMORIALAdditional Information:Son of Abraham and Mary Lord; husband of Kathleen Lord, of Milnrow, Lancashire.

    Rank:SerjeantService No:7882327Date of Death:28/06/1944Age:32Regiment/Service:Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C. 3rd Panel Reference: Panel 8, Column 2. Memorial:BAYEUX MEMORIALAdditional Information:Son of Eli and Annie Britt; husband of Mary Annie Britt, of Sandford, Dorsetshire.

    Can't find a CWGC report for Clifford Haworth 3448937 . The 2 above are mentioned only on a memorial so its highly likely their bodies were never recovered. Sometimes they are found and buried near to where they died and a report is attached to the CWGC details which sometimes allows one to find out the co-ordinates of where they died.


    Edited to add:
    Have you see this thread - Unit Diary 3rd Royal Tank regiment looks as though it may be worth contacting Drew
  3. 13thbattalion

    13thbattalion Active Member

    Hi. Thanks for your reply. Its appears that they were killed during operation Epsom. I forgot to say in my post that c.howarth survived but he never got over the guilt of surviving.
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Thats were the confusion is

    Try contacting Drew to see if he has the War Diary pages that fit with the incident - you (or your mate) also should send away for his service record.

  5. 13thbattalion

    13thbattalion Active Member

    Sorry about that, I should've said who his dad was. Am I right in thinking that the Sherman had a crew of five?
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  7. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    Hello All,

    The standard 75mm Sherman did indeed have a crew of 5 but one tank per troop would have been a 17pdr Firefly and due to ammunition storage the bow MG and Hull Gunners position were removed. Therefore these tanks only had 4 crew.
    This 17pdr was often commanded by the troop sergeant because he was the most experienced in the troop and the troop commander (Lt) in a 75mm was more concerned with maintaining the initiative and commanding the troop.
    The sergeant was tasked with finding good "overwatch" positions from which the 17pdr could make best use of its punching power against enemy tanks.
    You friends father could have been the driver hence why he survived. All supposition of course.


  8. 13thbattalion

    13thbattalion Active Member

    Interesting information. My friends dad was the driver, so maybe his tank was a firefly .
    Thanks for the info guys.
  9. jordan capuano

    jordan capuano New Member

    hi there may be trouble finding him as the surname is incorrect as it is howarth I don't have a service number but the story sticks with what I was told I'm hoping that may help if you haven't already found what your after
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Based on the information provided the only Clifford Howarth that died in WW2 is
    Service Number 5046300
    Died 30/12/1944
    Aged 33
    2nd Bn.
    North Staffordshire Regiment
    Son of Oscar and Jane Howarth; husband of Leah Howarth, of Upper Gornal, Staffordshire.
    Location: Italy
    Number of casualties: 1616
    Cemetery/memorial reference: VI. E. 6.

    Trouble is Service number doesnt match, date of death doesnt match, country of death doesnt match, regiment doesnt match

  11. jordan capuano

    jordan capuano New Member

    Hmmmm il see if I can do some looking about .... the stor my great grandad told us is the same as mentioned above just wrong spellon of name

    Not sure if you can check or if this helps

    But his spouse was Joyce howarth and they lived in rochdale, Lancashire.
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Well the Howarth married a Joyce in Lancashire results in several:

    Albert Howarth
    Apr-May-Jun 1940 Rochdale Lancashire Joyce Taylor

    Stanley Howarth
    Oct-Nov-Dec 1941 Littleborough Lancashire Joyce Fielding

    Douglas Howarth
    Jul-Aug-Sep 1946 Burnley Lancashire Joyce Smith

    Alfred Howarth
    Apr-May-Jun 1947 Middleton Lancashire Joyce Needham

    No Cliffords though
  13. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    TD - you're good at this. I think you have missed the fact that Howarth/Hawarth survived (Post 3). Post 1 is ambiguous. Tank crew list should have at least four names to it. Bayeux Memorial gives another Trooper from 3RTR with date of death 28/6/44 - Tpr W F Vane, 14556597 - could he be the third crew member killed? Over to you.
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Over to 13thbattalion I think

  15. jordan capuano

    jordan capuano New Member

    Oh just re-read your comment lol he didn't die he survived a tank attack but was injured and unconsious
    Not sure where he was but he was a driver he got brought home straight after

    He died around 2003 - 2004 I think

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