3 RTR B Squadron

My understanding is that there did indeed come a time when tanks were rotated within Troops and Troops rotated within Squadrons and the Squadrons also rotated. Langdon describes this in modest detail in his book - important in his case as he was Troop Leader of 1 Troop A Squadron! It means that everyone had a 'chance' to lead the Regiment at some stage - sounds like Russian Roulette.

 

What is the second word in the last sentence? (in what he wrote on the back of the first photo?) "Total ____?"

 

Total insult?

 

Yep,'total insult'. Obviously not happy about having to relinquish their Comets, Granddad was not one to mince words!

 

No, clearly not! A baffling decision by the army, too.

 

Reading the WD, I just cannot fathom what the purpose was of giving them Crocodiles in what was then peace time...other than the fact that they changed roles with 141 RAC, who originally had the Crocodiles....

 

I don't have time to check but, from what I remember, the WD doesn't mention the Crocodiles very much at all. When I asked an ex 3RTR veteran - Harry Dews - about this many years ago, he could barely remember that they had even had the Crocodiles.....and Harry should know as he was quite Senior in 3RTR by that time (I was amazed to see his signature on lots of pages in the 3RTR WD when I received a 'copy').

 

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Some time ago, looking at these photos, I did a bit of googling about 3RTR using Crocodiles, and the truth is there isn't much out there on it. In fact, the first mention I've seen is in the WD, see below!

27th July '45: 1100; Signal 271455B G10268 received – 71 Armd Div reorganising as an occupational Div. 3 R Tks going to 31 Armd Bde taking over “Crocodiles” on arrival.

Then:

28th July '45: 1730; CO’s conference. Bn to take over Churchills (Crocodiles) from 141 RAC.

Then, on 25th August:

1100; Phone message from 11 Armd Div. 4 KSLI will not take over area FRIEDRICHSTADT. 141 RAC will change over direct with 3 R Tks.

On 31st August tanks and armoured vehicles are sent via train to Krefeld, and the batallion goes to Johannistal (not sure where this is, the only place I can find with this name - Johannisthal- is a district of Berlin, but it must be somewhere in the vicinity of Süchteln) by road in two parties, 30th & 31st August.

On 3rd September WD states: 1800; Green Tabs Club opens in Hotel Plaatzen, SUCHTELN. (Getting their priorities right!)

The next mention is on 14th September: 0915; Flame test of all CHURCHILL Crocs.

They had them until March-April '46 , WD states on 20th March: Disposal Instructions for Churchill “Crocodile” Tanks. So they had them some 6 months or so.

Finally, looking at this period, I realise all this time we've been using the wrong name for the batallion, as on 22nd September '45, the following order is issued:

Official designation of unit now 3rd Royal Tank Regt and NOT 3rd Bn Royal Tank Regt.

 

If he was quite senior, then he probably spent most of his time in the Green Tabs Club, hence his inability to remember!!!!! (Only kidding!!!)

Also, a bit of digging has brought info on 141st RAC, The Buffs, served from Normandy till end of war with Crocodiles:
141 Regt R.A.C (The Buffs)
Haven't seen anything about them receiving Comets though.

 

3RTR handed their Comets in to 171 Field Park located on the autobahn near Hamburg on about 1st August 1945. The Comets stayed on the 171 FP until required by other Regiments. They received the Crocodiles by simply 'taking them over' from 141 RAC. Need to bear in mind that, at that stage, there was still a lot going on in Europe and with still some chance - however remote - that the Red Army could get moving again: everyone thought the War was over but, as we now know, the Cold War had already sort of started. Thankfully the Crocodiles were never needed!

 

It's a bit quiet here at the mo, so I'll share this photo that I've just scanned!

 

Interesting photo albeit I'm puzzled by the caption. Some of those tanks are looking a little worse for wear - look at the damaged track guards on both that Cromwell and the Comets in the background. The Comets saw their first use in anger at the Rhine crossing and hence my comment.

 

I know what you mean, plus they crossed the Rhine in February, and looking at the trees, etc, it's certainly later than that. He must have mixed up rivers, I'm guessing it's before crossing either The Weser or The Aller. Both were crossed in April, and in both cases they had to wait before crossing due to blown bridges and enemy action.

 

3RTR crossed the Rhine in late March. I ageee - more likely to be the Weser or Aller or any of the other several waterways they crossed in those last few weeks of the War.

The word 'rest' could be relevant - they were pulled out of the line for several days after crossing the Aller and before the final push up towards Bad Segeburg.

 

Oops, you're right, misread dates..the fact that there are Cromwells brings to mind the 'Windmill OP' incident of 19 April, although the ones in the shot aren't 95mm:
0530; Cromwells move off. 2 i/c eventually finds OP in windmill at 903316. This is the first occasion when CROMWELLS (4 x 95mm) have been used as a battery.
This was prior to crossing the Elbe.

 

Ref the Windmill OP. I would need to check but I think the 2i/c would be Norman Bourne. Bourne was formerly Major commanding A Squadron 24th Lancers before his move to 3RTR. He assumed command of 3RTR on few occasions.

 

Atmospheric photo. Trees look as if they are all pines so I don't think any inferences can be drawn on time of year. Did 3 RTR drive on their tracks to the Rhine or were they transported? This could indicate whether the photo was indeed prior to the Rhine or thereafter. The soldier on the right seems to be fiddling with a radio - looks like a No.22 set. Which unit would have owned the Cromwell?

 

Sorry I seemed to have messed up again, I received a email re post from JDKR
meant for Frank Flattery. I got a similar thread going, due to the fact I have never done anything like this before and trying to figure things out.
Thank you for your patience. If you could tell me how to do things, I would be grateful Sheila

 

Simply ensure you are responding on the correct thread : having two threads with similar names clearly makes this more difficult. Alternatively change the title of 'your' thread (as you can't change the name of anyone else's thread). Hope that helps.

 

Thank you SDP that is very helpful, I will change my title thread. Sheila