3 Panzer- Grenadier Division- 3 Infanterie Division( mot.)

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by Stuart Avery, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Hi to all,

    I've bought two books on the above Division! Can anyone tell me of a app - or a tool that will enable me to translate it from German to English Text?
    016041.JPG

    The above book is of 522 pages plus 265 illustrations, 26 (of 34) loose maps at the rear as called for.
    016032.JPG
    This one has the title of ; 3 Infanterie- Division (Mot.) 3 Panzer Grenadier- Division. The author is Dieckhoff Gerhard. 39-45. I will give more detail in time.

    Stu.
     
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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    You could type a paragraph or two at a time into Google Translate.
     
  3. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Owen,that will be a rather long slog. I'm willing to try & read German by another app or tool. Dictionary maybe? For once, I think i may have started something that one can not find a answer? I will keep going.

    Cheers,
    Stu.
     
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

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  5. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Stu,

    These are for different divisions - the top one is 3rd Panzer Division, a different unit to 3 Panzergrenadier Division, and one that after the Polish and French campaigns spent it's entire career on the Eastern Front.

    The main problem with online translation tools is that they do not do a very good job with German 1940s military terms and especially abbreviations that German unit histories abound in.

    Cheers,
    Gary.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  6. HA96

    HA96 Member

    In general the Scan + Translate are good tools.Last year I have used one to "translate" OldGerman style text to modern text. Brilliant results.
    Stefan.
    NB: I am willing to double check if you scan a couple of pages.
    Stefan.
     
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  7. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I've seen that somebody has started selling copies of selected german unit/formation histories on eBay recently and a few covered troops at Cassino, an area of interest.

    What stayed my hand, so to speak, was a) the translation task and b) the complete lack of familiarity with German practice--did they keep 'diaries' of the style as the British or are they more lists of movements, orders received and actions taken?
     
  8. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Clive, thanks for providing the link. It will give me something to practise on when the books arrive.

    Stefan, I will scan a few pages for you & post them on here.

    Gary,
    I new i should have checked with you before i purchased them & it ( looks has if I've dropped a b*****k!) Never mind, a lesson learned. I will make use of them in someway. One out of three cant be bad. Please have a butchers at the one below,

    Die 44. Infanterie- Division:Tagebuchder Hock- und Deutschmeister. 1st Edition, 1969. 384 Pages & the Authors are, Schimak Anton, Lamprecht Karl & Dettmer Freidrick. Austria Press. Is this the same Grenadier Division that was 1) virtually destroyed at Stalingrad: reformed & 2) left the Italian Campaign in November 44 for the Hungarian front?

    Cheers,
    Stu.
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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  9. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is.

    One thing to bear in mind with most of the German divisional histories for units that served in Italy after being reconstituted (3 PzG, 29 PzG, 16 Pz, 44 ID, 71 ID, 98 ID, 94 ID, 305 ID) is that the period in Russia up until 1943 (and France\Poland if they participated) is usually covered in great detail and takes up the majority of the books. The periods after mid-1943 tend to be dealt with in far less detail and this gets more obvious into 1944\45; this obviously covers the Italian campaign.

    However, it is true that this also applies to units that served exclusively on the Eastern Front - for example the 3 Panzer Division history is like this. I tend to believe this is due to the non-existence of even divisional level war diaries and records after November 1943.
     
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  10. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Some original (colour) battalion level examples are here - http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/nodes/9136-findbuch-12483-bataillone These are in Russian archives. That site also has divisional, corps and army level examples. Some of these are very rare being late war examples - I'm assuming battlefield captures.

    I'd be interested in what copies are being sold that concern units at Cassino? Are they copies of what are in held NARA? Most of their (and BAMA which have the originals) records are divisional and generally already end in November 1943 (or do not exist at all - i.e. 15 PzG Division). A lot of these are available free to download off various sites on the internet.
     
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  11. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Some of the more detailed histories are those produced pots war by various associations or commanding officers who had access to material outside of official archival material. For example, this one for 44 ID covers 2nd December to 24th May 1944 and is 371 pages long (albeit 100 are about post-war visits to Cassino, the cemetery etc).
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  12. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    PS Just noticed the Russian archive site has the KTB for Pionierbatallion 80 (44 ID. engineer battalion) for most of 1944. As this is the original I assume it isn't in BAMA or NARA? Makes you wonder what else is hidden away in Russian archives. Link below is for Jan to Apr 1944.

    Russisch-deutsches Projekt zur Digitalisierung deutscher Dokumente in den Archiven der Russischen Föderation | Akte 24. Unterlagen der Ia-Abteilung des Pionierbataillons 80 der 44. Reichsgrenadierdivision Hoch- und Deutschmeister: Anlagen Nr. 1-60 zum KTB des Pionierbataillons 80 zum Einsatz an der Front in Italien u.a.

    Nice map of minefields south east of San Angelo.

    IMG_0726_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  13. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Gary,

    thank-you for time - knowledge & your advise.

    I'm sure that other forum members will agree that you are a top chap. Happy days.:cheers:

    Regards,
    Stuart.
     
  14. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Stefan, when you get the chance, would you mind translating the page below? Its a content page from the 3.Jnf.Div. I'm thinking the Author is OBERSTUDIENRAT GERHARD DIECKHOFF CUXHAVEN? The latter may be a town in Gemany, or Austria not sure. I'm starting to think that all is not lost regarding 3. Panzer-Grenadier-Division. I'm looking at FELDZUG IN ITALIEN 1943-44. Pages 243 through to 320.

    Thanks for your time.
    Stu.
    Contents page..jpg
     
  15. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Stuart … Splendid find! Very rare books!

    Though it's a hard job to translate it all … Google translate could be of assistance …

    I'm much interested in the exploits of the division during the fall of 1944 (Lorraine & Aachen) and winter 44/45 (Ardennes Offensive).

    Edit: Stefan's suggestion might do the job … :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  16. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I'd go with something like this. Note, it isn't fully literal (I'd use Bernhard Line instead of Bernhard position as that is what we commonly know it as in English, Route 82 instead of Street 82 which sounds odd to our ears).

    Neuaufstellung als 3. Panzer-Division
    Aufstellung in Frankreich - Verlegung nach Italien - Einsatz gegen Rom

    Reorganization as 3rd Panzer-Grenadier Division
    Establishment in France - Transfer to Italy - Operation against Rome

    Kämpfe bis zur Berhard-Stellung
    Von Salerno zum Volturno - Volturno-Calore-Stellung - Beiderseits des Volturno - Im Vorfeld der Bernhard-Stellung


    Battles to the Bernhard Line
    From Salerno to the Volturno - Volturno-Calore position - On both sides of the Volturno - In front of the Bernhard Line

    Verteidigung der Bernhard-Stellung
    Defence of the Bernhard Line

    Küstensicherung und Auffrischung
    Coastal security and refreshing

    Neue Einsätze
    An Adria-Front - Grenadier-Regiment (mot.) 8 am M. Carella und M. Croce

    New Deployment
    On the Adriatic Front - Grenadier Regiment (mot.) 8 at M. Carella and M. Croce

    Brückenkopf Nettuno
    Aufmarsch - Kämpfe um Aprilia und Campoleone - Rückeroberung Aprilias - Vorstoß bis Straße 82 - Verteidigung im Brückenkopf - Ausbruch der Amerikaner aus dem Brückenkopf


    Nettuno Bridgehead
    Deployment - Battle for Aprilia and Campoleone - Recapture of Aprilia - Advance to Route 82 - Defence in the bridgehead - Breakout of the Americans from the bridgehead

    Rückzugskämpfe bis zum Arno
    Rückzug bis zur Cecina - Von Cecina bis zum Arno


    Fighting retreat to the Arno
    Retreat to Cecina - From Cecina to the Arno
     
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  17. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Gary,
    can you please do the same on the content page below? 263 - 330. Its from my post eight . By the way, can you speak German has well has you can read it?

    Thanks for your time.

    Regards,
    Stu.
    CCF27012019_0022.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  18. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Besetzung der oberitalienischen Raumes
    Occupation of the northern Italian area

    Bandenbekämpfung and Küstensicherung

    Partisan fighting and coastal security

    Einsatz im Raum Cassino
    Deployment in the area Cassino

    Abwehrschlacht am Garigliano, Rapido und bei Cassino
    Defensive battle on the Garigliano, Rapido and at Cassino

    Zweite Abwehrschlacht bei Cassino
    Second defensive battle at Cassino

    Dritte Abwherschlacht bei Cassino und am Liri
    Third defensive battle at Cassino and on the Liri

    Von den Abruzzen zum Trasimenischen See
    From Abruzzo to Lake Trasimeno

    Abwehrkämpfe am Tiber
    Defensive fighting on the Tiber

    Abwehrschlacht am oberen tiber
    Defensive battle on the upper Tiber

    Abwehrschlacht am nördlichen Appenin
    Defensive battle in the northern Appenines
     
  19. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Gary,
    thanks for your time.
    Stu.
     
  20. steelers708

    steelers708 Junior Member

    If you're still struggling to read the 3rd Panzer books you may be pleased to learn that they were translated into English and published by Stackpole in 2013. Look for Armored Bears Vol 1 & 2.
     

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