2nd front by US/UK: why so late?

Discussion in 'General' started by T-34, Jul 11, 2006.

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  1. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    as war had begun russia was left to own devices to fight hitler's army.
    it took the most crucial and bloodiest battles at moscow, stalingrad and kursk
    for western allies to start to act.
    why didn't US&UK get themselves involved in ww2 right away, in 1941?
    i'm suspicious they were so scared, they preferred to stay aside and just watch us, russians, die in fights against uneqalled and awesome army of wehrmacht.
    smart behaviour, i have to admit.
    but why attempt to share in victory alongside with true victors?
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    as war had begun russia was left to own devices to fight hitler's army.
    it took the most crucial and bloodiest battles at moscow, stalingrad and kursk
    for western allies to start to act.
    why didn't US&UK get themselves involved in ww2 right away, in 1941?
    i'm suspicious they were so scared, they preferred to stay aside and just watch us, russians, die in fights against uneqalled and awesome army of wehrmacht.
    smart behaviour, i have to admit.
    but why attempt to share in victory alongside with true victors?

    T34....What a load of drivel.

    Even with the benefit of hindsight, you're foresight is abyssmal.

    If you believe that load of rubbish you have written here you are a candidate for a mental asylum.

    The war commenced in 1939, why didn't Stalin stand up in 1939 and support Britain, France, Poland etc against the German machine?

    Reason: he still wanted to trade with Germany and steal a piece of Europe for himself.

    Having committed that type of treachery on the Polish people and others, why wouldn't the allies be wary of Stalin's intentions.

    Just remember also, that prior to Barbarossa, whilst Stalin was slaughtering the Poles and others and being Hitlers "friend", the Commonwealth forces were waiting for Germany to attack Britain (39-40), they were also fighting the Italians in North Africa (40-41), trying to control the sealanes with their Navy, trying to deny Hitler Norway (1940)etc etc.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    T34Stop trolling and f**k off.
     
  4. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Not more guff from a Soviet supporter that thinks the Soviets won the war on their own.

    An amphibious invasion of northern Europe implemented too soon, before the right forces assembled, equipment prepared and training taken place, or without a believable deception plan, or without waiting for the right weather, would have been doomed to failure. Like it or not, that would have meant that the Soviets would have been left on their own to loose a hell of a lot more than they did.

    Before anyone sits there and accuses the allies in the west of not doing their part, they should not only consider the support given in the form of 'Lend Lease', but also that the Soviets were quite happy to maintain a pact with the Germans while they marched over western europe and even partition Poland, before they were stabbed in the back and then claimed the allies support.

    Try thinking about things before you post antagonistic accusations. Kids! :banghead:
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    T34Stop trolling and f**k off.
    succinctly put.
    And as for saying the war began in 1941? I didn't realise you had such an American worldview T34...
    let's not feed this one eh?
     
  6. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    :Cartangry: As someone who values the importance of the Russian Front this sort of posting makes me mad. I'm with Owen on this one!
     
  7. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    "There are none so blind as those who will not see"
     
  8. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    T34Stop trolling and f**k off.

    See what happens when you try to be accommadating to a differing point of view.

    Didn't you try to get him to speak of his family during the war and what the real Soviet soldier went through.

    Just does not pay to be nice to a F***wit!
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    See what happens when you try to be accommadating to a differing point of view.

    Didn't you try to get him to speak of his family during the war and what the real Soviet soldier went through.

    Just does not pay to be nice to a F***wit!
    Yeah, asked time and again for some family history.Which I'm sure we'd all like to read about.But all we get is b*ll*x.
     
  10. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    I recall a pro Japanese poster on this forum last year who came back with this response when questioned about the slaughter of between 200,000 & 300,000 Chinese by the Japanese at Nanking.

    "We had no alternative but to kill them as they would not do what they were told".
     
  11. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I recall a pro Japanese poster on this forum last year who came back with this response when questioned about the slaughter of between 200,000 & 300,000 Chinese by the Japanese at Nanking.

    "We had no alternative but to kill them as they would not do what they were told".

    That comment may or may not have been true...... however they were more likely to have done what they were told if they were given the option before being slaughtered. Everything can be seen from several perspectives, you just have to want to see them I suppose.
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    See what happens when you try to be accommadating to a differing point of view.

    Didn't you try to get him to speak of his family during the war and what the real Soviet soldier went through.

    Just does not pay to be nice to a :point:F***wit!
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    So glad to see one of my favourite words is truly international!
     
  13. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    So glad to see one of my favourite words is truly international!

    The reason it is International is that there are so many of them!
     
  14. mahross

    mahross Senior Member

    Good replies guys. I have seen this before with some Poles who to all intent and purpose claimed they won the war. It was a combined effort and there are many and various reasons as to why the Allies took quite so long to launch the invasion. The Soviets themsleves found out how hard amphibious ops are in the Crimea, imagine trying to do that accross the english channel against fortified position. It took time and planning. Also the Soviet Union would never have survived the war without the support fromt the west. The combined bombing offensive drew away fighters which could have been better used in Russia thus, allowing the VVS to achieve local air superiority in the areas of their major offensives. Also the Soviets were able to produce tanks but would never had survived without the trucks, boots and medicine supplied to them by the west amongst other things. A combined effort i would say.

    Ross
     
  15. raf

    raf Senior Member

    is t34 having a laugh.

    didnt the british have a supply line to Russia.

    also the Russians didnt put up much defence and if it wasnt for the winter then there wouldnt have been a Russian on slaught.

    i have to say though the newer generation are starting to believe that the Americans won the war !!!!! what are these people being taught at school.
     
  16. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Without the constant danger of invasion from the West, and the need to keep powerful forces in France, the Germans would have gone through Russia no trouble at all. The Russians never had a channel to cross. And they benefitted from the air war that the Allies inflicted on Germany.

    All that stood between total Nazi domination at one time, was Great Britain, for we stood alone, while the Russians and the Germans carved up Poland and the USA kept up their isolationist stance, I often wonder if the USA would have come into the war at all if the Japs had not bombed Pearl Harbour?

    We alone stood for freedom. It is quite amazing how quickly the Nazi/Soviet pact is forgotten....

    Despite the British secret service constantly telling Stalin of the impending invasion of the Soviet Union...He would not beleive what was patently obvious, and was therefore, guilty of a shocking dereliction of duty. Instead, the onslaught took them by surprise, and the Soviet prisoners surrendered in their hundreds of thousands.

    Having talked to the English speaking Germans that fought in Russia,They told me that the famed Russian barrages paled into insignificance when compared with the British.

    I sometimes wonder about todays young people, how their ideas are gathered by the Hollywood version of what took place. Sometimes so far from the truth as to be absolutely laughable. But the truth is no one wants to know the facts. Certainly not by those of us that lived, and fought in those years when we stood alone.. and until the final victory in Bremen
    Sapper.
     
  17. raf

    raf Senior Member

    Without the constant danger of invasion from the West, and the need to keep powerful forces in France, the Germans would have gone through Russia no trouble at all. The Russians never had a channel to cross. And they benefitted from the air war that the Allies inflicted on Germany.

    All that stood between total Nazi domination at one time, was Great Britain, for we stood alone, while the Russians and the Germans carved up Poland and the USA kept up their isolationist stance, I often wonder if the USA would have come into the war at all if the Japs had not bombed Pearl Harbour?

    We alone stood for freedom. It is quite amazing how quickly the Nazi/Soviet pact is forgotten....

    Despite the British secret service constantly telling Stalin of the impending invasion of the Soviet Union...He would not beleive what was patently obvious, and was therefore, guilty of a shocking dereliction of duty. Instead, the onslaught took them by surprise, and the Soviet prisoners surrendered in their hundreds of thousands.

    Having talked to the English speaking Germans that fought in Russia,They told me that the famed Russian barrages paled into insignificance when compared with the British.

    I sometimes wonder about todays young people, how their ideas are gathered by the Hollywood version of what took place. Sometimes so far from the truth as to be absolutely laughable. But the truth is no one wants to know the facts. Certainly not by those of us that lived, and fought in those years when we stood alone.. and until the final victory in Bremen
    Sapper.



    couldnt agree more sapps.


    what would be interesting to know is.....if the Japs hadnt bombed pearl harbour and the yanks didnt enter the war then the Germans would have taken Russia before the winter and they wouldnt have needed a strong force at the atlantic wall as a British invasion wasnt fourth coming.

    if sealion had taken place i think this may have then brought the U.S into the war......do you think this may have happend.
     
  18. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Some seem to forget that Russia and Germany were bed partners till one decided to stick the knife in. In 1940 backs to the wall, for all intents and purpose - no USA, Russia and Germany carving up Poland and the east for their own benefit.

    Yamamoto said himself they had awoken a sleeping giant by attacking the US. Lindbergh and the German American lobby were keeping the states isolated. The Americans would have probably carried on supplying us with equipment on the QT. But our options would have been limited.

    Then you have the interesting scenario with Barbarossa, if Hitler hadn't gone for Russia and instead consolidated his gains and then go for Britain. Her bed partner might have even supplied troops to invade. Stalin didn't trust the British for sending troops to the Baltic just after the first world war under Field Marshal Alexander.

    It never surprises me how some people are economical with the facts. It is just sad that the contributions that the likes of Sapper and millions like him are batted down in a case of one up man ship.

    It is also sad that ww2 history is given a back seat as far as education goes. The history and the events of that period are not out of date or of irrelevance as that was ancient history and it doesn't have any bearing on the modern world. The educators these days treat those who respect those event of living in the past of the days of empire. In a society where it is politically incorrect to patriotic for fear of upsetting other nationalities. At the celebrations for Trafalgar there was a red and a blue navy because the political correct didn't want to upset the invited French dignitaries. Don't the facts upset the sensitivities. Hollywood and the like pour out the glam because it sells films it's exciting. Problem is some prats think that it is fact.

    Can anyone remember the furore when Deidre Barlow off Coronation Street got sent down over her partner stitching her up. People condemned the actor who played her partner. There were Free Deidre Barlow campaigns, the PM mentioned it jokingly in Parliament. Some believe that 221b Baker Street exists. Some used to attack Nasty Nick off EastEnders for the way he treated his mum. You can laugh but the base is there, and you wonder why people are ignorant to the forties.
     
  19. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    couldnt agree more sapps.


    what would be interesting to know is.....if the Japs hadnt bombed pearl harbour and the yanks didnt enter the war then the Germans would have taken Russia before the winter and they wouldnt have needed a strong force at the atlantic wall as a British invasion wasnt fourth coming.

    if sealion had taken place i think this may have then brought the U.S into the war......do you think this may have happend.
    See what your getting at concerning Sealion, RAF. But what reason would they have for getting into the war. Roosevelt was pro -British, but had to keep it under a bushel. You have Lindbergh and the isolationists. "It's not our war,why sacrifice our men for a European war of no concern to us. Germany versus the Empire, we helped them out last time....... etc, etc. Roosevelt could have supplied us with equipment - but not men. With Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt had his excuse to take off the gloves. Roosevelt wanted to come to our aid, but bear in mind the Americans had lost men in a European theatre only twenty years previous and it was fresh on the minds of those who had been there.

    Once Pearl Harbor happens, the excuse for the Americans to kick a** has arrived and the ball is rolling. Bear in mind that after the British, the Germans had provided the largest immigrant contribution to the population. Also America declared war on Japan or vice versa. There was nothing stopping them from going to war with Japan and not Germany. The Germans declared war on America, if they hadn't.......???
     
  20. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... But the truth is no one wants to know the facts. Certainly not by those of us that lived, and fought in those years when we stood alone.. and until the final victory in Bremen.

    'final victory' took place in Berlin, remember Soviet banner over Reichsdag?
     
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