Hi All, My Dad served in the above unit and, like many veterans, would say little about what he experienced. Now that I have the time (I'm recently retired) I intend to find out and produce a history of the unit in the process. I have copies of all the war diaries, the RE Official History and RE Journals 1905-2005 (the latter two are available on CD from the RE Museum at Chatham). I intend to 'fill out' the narrative with personal testimony from the Second World War Experience Centre (which is near to where I live) IWM and National Army Museum. Does anyone have any information about the squadron or suggestions of where else I should look? I would be particularly interested in photographs featuring squadron members. I should also point out that the squadron was renamed 622 (Cheshire) Field Squadron in June 1943. And in January 1945 it was converted into an Assault Squadron (sometimes referred to as an Armoured Engineer Squadron) initially with a 'C' designation and later an 'F'. The '(Cheshire)' was sometimes included and sometimes not, and on occasion it was simply referred to as 'C' or 'F' Squadron RE. (Nothing beats simplicity, does it?) I have attached a one-page summary of the squadron's history. Thanks Bill
Hello Bill I know it is a while since you posted, but I see you are still active. Anyway, a duplicate Bn, the 3rd Cheshire Field Squadron was raised in 1939, largely from lads at Wallasey Grammar school apparently. Both units were part of the mobile divisional R.E., and eventually both were assigned to 10th Armoured prior to El Alamein as you know. To finally get to the point, there is an excellent account of the deeds of the 3rd in the book 'Alamein' by C.E Lucas Phillips. Gives you some idea of what the men did, as most books concentrate on the armour and infantry. The 3rd were with 8th Armd Brigade, so assume 2nd were with the 9th Armd Bde. As you point out they both were designated Assault Sqdns in Autumn 1944 in Italy. Cheers Bob
Hi Bob, Thanks for replying to the post. I know quite a bit about 3rd (Cheshire) Field Squadron as I was lucky enough to meet two squadron veterans and record them on tape. They were able to give me a lot of background on field squadrons (training, duties, etc.) which you never read about in books. I have a lot of books about Alamein, including the one by Lucas Phillips, and would agree that he gives due credit to the engineers for the essential role they performed. In 2010 I completed a part-time MA in Second World War Studies and for my dissertation I compared the performances of the two mine-clearing teams on the opening night of 2nd Alamein (one did much better than the other); it was a fascinating study. The book is progressing slowly, but the regular contact I get from unexpected sources, like you, make it both enjoyable and, at times, exciting. Thanks again for getting in touch Bill
Hello Bill Look forward to the book. Did you cover gallantry awards to the units, particularly for Alamein? I am aware of at least one MM for the mine clearance, but would imagine there are more awards. Regarding the history, I don't know if you are covering the predecessor units (1st Cheshire Volunteer Engineers in the Boer War, and the 1st and 2/1st Cheshire Field Coys in WW1), but I can provide a list of men who volunteered for overseas service during the Boer war. Rgds Bob
Hi Bob, I have attempted to identify all the gallantry awards made to squadron members and also squadron casualties, but the variations in how the squadron's name was written ('Field' can be 'Fd' or 'Fld' and 'Squadron' can be 'Sq', 'Sqn' or 'Sqdn') and because its name changed twice (to 622 Field Squadron and F Assault Squadron) it was difficult to produce definitive lists. There was also the complication that some casualties were simply recorded as 'Royal Engineers'. Having said that I have, so far, identified 21 gallantry awards (6 x MC, 13 x MM, 1 x BEM & 1 x MBE) and 38 killed (3 x officers & 35 x ORs). I have yet to compare casualties mentioned in the war diaries with CWGC records, which may point to a few more. With regard to predecessor units, they will be covered in the introduction, but only in summary, just to give an understanding of the squadron's roots and development up to the start of the Second World War. However, if you know of any sources that could help in this regard, I would be interested to hear of them. Regards Bill
Hi All, I'm new to this site but would like to find out more about the 2nd Cheshires as my grandad, Tom Heath was in it from the start, all the way through Africa, and into D Day and beyond. Captured by the Germans during the 1st battle of El Alamein, escaped whilst stealing a piano harpsichord, and blown out of the turret of a few tanks along the way. He has a mention in the Lucas book cited above, as his captain was shot before he was captured. my Grandad never spoke about the war unless he'd had a few, and only then I would get to hear snippets of what happened. I remember hanging on every word. He passed away in 1997 and i went to the 2nd Cheshires annual reunion in 1998 in honour of his memory, such brave men, and such an honour for me to be in their presence. Anyway, I'm currently making my kids (6 and 7) watch a programme on D-Day, determined they will have some knowledge about what those brave men and women did for us.
Hi Are you referring to the 2nd Battalion Cheshire Regiment which was a MG Battalion or the Royal Engineer Field Squadron ?
Hi lfc (that wouldn't be a clue to your football allegiance, would it?) Finding out what a particular unit did during the war is not difficult, but can be very time-consuming, as I'm finding out! Many units produced their own histories, but I've not been able to find one for the 2nd (Cheshire) Field Squadron. The war diaries are a good place to start, but can be a bit scant on detail when it comes to describing periods in combat. Also, they are not written with the general reader in mind and can be difficult to understand. Having said that, I have a copy of all the squadron diaries that have survived (June & July 1940 are missing) and you are welcome to a copy. If you have not already done so, I suggest you apply for your grandad's service records from the MOD; they cost £35 and can take up to a year to come, but are well worth it. From my dad's records I discovered he was hospitalised four times in his five years overseas and that in May 1943, on discharge from his third spell in hospital, was posted to 66 Field Company for the invasion of Sicily; I had previously thought his war service was entirely with the 2nd Cheshires. If your grandad was involved in D-Day, he must have been similarly transferred to another unit as the squadron was not part of it. At the other end of the spectrum from the war diaries are published accounts of the operations in which the squadron took part. While very few talk much about the engineers, they will give you a good understanding of what they were involved in. The squadron took part in the following: 'Compass', Dec 1940 to Feb 1941, (O'Connor's five-day raid that resulted in the rout of the Italian Tenth Army) El Alamein, Oct 1942 to Jan 1943, (Montgomery's famous victory; the squadron was relieved in Tripoli in Jan 1943) Coriano Ridge, Sep 1944, (a key German defensive position in the Adriatic sector of the Gothic Line; the squadron was by then known as '622' Field Squadron) 'Grapeshot', Apr 1945, (the Spring offensive in Italy; the squadron had been converted to an assault squadron and was known as 'F' Assault/Armoured Engineer Squadron) Also, the squadron's 2 Troop was part of 'HABFORCE' that was sent by Wavell in May 1941 to relieve the RAF station at Habbaniya in Iraq that had come under siege from nationalist, pro-German forces. There wasn't much fighting but the column's 700-mile trek to Baghdad was notable in itself. Do you have any material relating to your grandad, such as letters, diaries, memoirs or photos? If you would like more information, I will happily share what I know, either re-post here or 'pm' me. Regards Bill
Bill Have you got any further with the work you are doing on the 2nd and 3rd Cheshire Field Companies? I am looking into Engineers in the NW. Best Regards, Andy
Hi I am compiling a definitive list of casualties in Greece from September 1944 to May 1945. The 1939-45 casualty database on FMP states Sgt Victor Targett (2076502) and Sapper D Kantrowiz (2007758) were wounded in Greece on about 21 Dec 44. Both are identified as coming from 3rd Cheshire Field Squadron RE. On digging around I found that Sgt Targett was wounded on 23 Dec in ITALY whilst undergoing a recce of the River Senio. He was awarded a MM for his bravery. I have been less lucky with Spr Kantrowiz. If anyone can enlighten me as to how Spr Kantrowitz was wounded or just confirm that he was wounded in Italy and not Greece that would be brilliant. Then I can delete it from my list. Thanks Gus
Hello I don't know if this would be of interest but I've found a picture among my grandfathers effects of 622 Field Squadron. Royal Engineers, 2 - Troop. Jan 24 1944. Is that part of the Squadron that you're interested in (still new to all this) if so let me know and I can upload it. Regards, James
James. 2 Field Squadron RE is different from 2 Field Company RE. In the war, an Engineer Field Squadron supported an Armoured Brigade - tanks and an Engineer Field Company supported an Infantry Brigade - foot soldiers. Post war, the Royal Engineers dropped Company and now use Squadron for all their sub-units. Regards Frank
I am looking for any information on my uncle My uncles name is Harold Leslie Hartley born 20/10/1919. His army number is 1909721. this was the address he used whilst based at Northampton 3rd Troop, 3rd (Ches) Field Squad RE, A.P.O. 725 and when he was in Egypt / Libya 3rd troop, 3rd (Ches) field squadron R.E, M.E.F I think he was in explosives as there is mention of him blowing up dumps outside Tobruk Looking for any info from Feb 1941 until March 1942 when he died. thanks bob
Hi Bill, Not sure if you are still active on this site but I will give it a bash. I'm trying to find any information on my Great Uncle Vincent Jones who lived in Saughall Massey. He was member of the 3rd (Cheshire) Field Squadron but lost his life in Greece around 24/4/1941. His WW 2 War record is very scant on details........Would rearly like to keep his memory alive by knowing more about the Cheshires and where they were at the time of his death. God Bless Steve
Hello Steve, I finished researching my Dad's service with the 2nd Cheshires some years ago, so only come on the site when I receive a notification. I have a few suggestions. The History of the Royal Engineers Vol. VIII (Pakenham-Walsh) has several references to the 3rd Cheshires. There are recordings of two 3rd Cheshire veterans in the Second World War Experience Centre (www.war-experience.org), they will make copies for you for a small charge. One veteran was Leslie Jones, I forget the name of the other, but if you tell them it was recorded by me (Bill Haygarth) they should be able to find it. Les was captured at El Aghelia and spent most of the war in a POW camp in Germany, the other vet was at Alamein. The squadron's War Diaries are held in the National Archives at Kew. There were around six for the 2nd Cheshires covering different time periods, it will be the same for the 3rds. They can be hard to find in the catalogue as the squadron's name will appear in different forms: Field can be Fld or Fd, Squadron can be sqn or sq and Cheshire may or may not appear in the title, also, be aware that the squadron could have split up with one or more troops being posted somewhere else, in which case there will be two (or more) diaries for the same time period. There are people on this site who travel regularly to TNA and will photo them for you for a small charge. You will get hundreds of pages and much of it will contain little of interest. They will, however, tell you where the unit was and when, which you can use to consult general histories to find out what they were doing. Unless your great uncle was an officer it's unlikely he'll be mentioned by name, but you may be lucky, particularly as he lost his life. The 'Field Returns' included with the dairies list the squadrons strength broken down by trade. There's a section for those men they want back after being posted sick, my dad, who was a sapper, appeared here in two successive weeks - the only mention of him during his service with the squadron. The Royal Engineers Museum in Chatham; I don't recall them having any material for the 3rd Cheshires, but you should ask. Post a reply if you think I can be of further help; I'll make a note to come on in a few days. Good luck with your research, Bill
Hello James, I'm sorry I missed this when you posted it - I don't come on the site very often! 622 Field Squadron and 2 Field Squadron are one and the same - for some unknown reason several squadrons were re-numbered by prefacing the original number with '62'. So, please upload the photo, I'd be interested to see it. Did you find any other RE material in your grandfather's effects? Regards, Bill
Hi Bill, Thanks so much for all that brilliant information I will try my best to follow your leads! If you feel comfortable you can always use my personal e-mail skjones777@yahoo.com I seem to be the only one in my whole family who has any interest in our family history especially the two wars. Thanks again, Steve
