2nd Bn Kings Royal Rifle Corps 4th Armoured Brigade

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by lssah2025, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. lssah2025

    lssah2025 Driver advance

    Hello, I was wondering if anyone has any pictures for proper badging for 2nd BN KRRC attached to 4th AB?

    I assume KRRC shoulder flashes and Black Gerboa, but did they include AOS or anything out of the ordinary, and what color was their beret (was it black) since they were with an armoured division, pics I have seen from 46 appears to be a black beret and also black rank.
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

    There's a not-very-good quality photo of the officers in September 1945 where they are all wearing khaki berets (as a motor Battalion should) with boss badges. There appears to be a circular backing behind the badge which I assume to be rifle green.
    An even smaller photo shows Brigadier carver briefing 'the battalion'. As he's wearing a black beret, it's clear that the battalion are wearing khaki ones. Carver is sporting a square 4 Armd Bde flash above his R Tks tank (the Bde flash is about the same width as the tank). A Bde flash can be made out on one of the listening riflemen. As for their badges, there are a couple of dots that look more like boss badges than the Maltese cross, but that's no more than an impression.
  3. lssah2025

    lssah2025 Driver advance

    Thanks for the info, I have a few pictures from others, first set might be 45/46, so no AOS stripe I see, just the Gerboa and KRRC title, are the rank stripes in black, or is this just post war? Second set is from 46, and the beret appears black. Third set is the cap badge, the ones I have seen have all had red backing. Is there a way you can attach or send me the pics?

    Attached Files:

  4. idler

    idler GeneralList

    The logic for the rifle green patch is that the KRRC's boss badge was already red, and there seems to be a contrast. It's tricky as red can give a light or a dark tone in photos depending on the type of film used.

    Regarding the last photo, I would have said that was a khaki beret as it's not dramatically darker than the blouse.

    Will see how the photos scan. I was hoping to find an award or obituary portrait with a beret but no luck.
  5. lssah2025

    lssah2025 Driver advance

    Another picture I found, it appears the beret is lighter than the other picture, but don't know what BN this is since I can't see the badging.
  6. idler

    idler GeneralList

    2 KRRC Briefing.jpg

    2 KRRC Officers Sep 1945.jpg
    Owen likes this.
  7. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member


    Are their any photos of this unit in action? They seem to have avoided most of the official photographers.


  8. lssah2025

    lssah2025 Driver advance

    This is the dilemna that I am running into!! :)
  9. NickWard

    NickWard Member

    Hi there,

    I'm relatively new to this (this being my first post) and i've tried to absorb as much information in the last few months as possible, so any mistakes i've made don't be afraid to point them out!

    I've been researching my great grandfather recently, Norman Rayner (Service No. 6855909) who was part of the KRRC, and i've narrowed it down to 2nd Rifle Battalion - though i don't have much more information to specifics other than the fact he played the accordion, which was blown up with his Bren Gun Carrier by the Germans - which he never forgave them for - and that he was part of a Universal/Bren Gun Carrier crew (if anyone could help me out with any more details in terms of support groups etc, then I'm more than open to information!

    I have a few pictures (and a lovely medal collection) but like most of you, no pictures in combat or major conflict zone - but i figured i may as well share what i have and see if anyone finds it useful or interesting! :)

    I've tried to put the pictures in order of front and back, as a couple show locations, dates etc.

    Just after the liberation of Denmark, 1945


    View attachment image6.jpeg
    Here you can quite clearly see the desert rats logo on the bottom right of the Bren Gun Carrier (Norman being on the left) and it's most definitely the 4th Armoured Jerboa.


    Details given on the back of this picture are 'My pal, Len Turner, from Dagenham' - I believe this picture to be taken in 1945, after the division liberated Denmark, based on the pictures it was bundled with and locations, etc.

    Here's my great grandad, Norman Rayner. I don't have a definite time period for this photo, but again, i believe it's 1945 - however, it's definitely sometime after 1943, as he is wearing the General Service Cap, or Cap Ridiculous as it was nicknamed at the time, which was introduced September 1943 at the earliest. As well as this, if you look closely at the cap, you can see the KRRC cap badge, which does seem to be on the felt, but no shoulder patches except for what looks like the desert rats patch (from zooming in) Secondly, he's wearing an Africa star medal on his Battledress jacket too - and after going through his records and medals, he didn't receive any other stars until he got his Italian Star and 4 others from 20/12/45 onwards

    Here in a portrait (which i believe is dated around 1942) you can very nearly see the outline of a KRRC shoulder patch on his left epaulette, but unfortunately no patches to be seen! (Typical!)

    Seems to be a collection of everyone, this being said, I only recognise my great granddad, who is sitting bottom row, 3rd from left (Without his gaiters on! - you can vaguely see the 4th patches on the shoulders - Don't know why this picture came out upside down, but it won't fix itself! :pipe:

    Thanks for your time, and I hope this is the first post of many!
    Owen likes this.
  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Very interesting photos. The snag with motir battalions is that they had a lot of universal carriers for the scouts, mortars and Vickers MMGs. Then there were also the Wasp flamethrowers that can be seen in the first photo - the ones with the big tanks on the back.

    Another little point is that he's not wearing a Cap, GS, it's the khaki beret issued to Motor Bn personnel.
  11. NickWard

    NickWard Member

    There's still a lot about him i'm yet to learn, he died when i was only 6 months old, would do anything to spend a day with him and just talk for hours, but hey what can you do.. I'm yet to learn his actual rank yet, which has been surprisingly hard considering i have service number and other details to specific days..

    good spot though, i hadn't looked that close, foolishly.. The GS cap has been haunting me for weeks so I'm glad i can put that to rest! :lol:
  12. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Are those Vickers Ks mounted on a Carrier... fascinating!
  13. NickWard

    NickWard Member

    That was one of the first things one of my work colleagues mentioned when i showed him!
  14. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member


    Great photos, thanks for posting. I have some of the war diary for 1944 in NW Europe if you are interested.


  15. NickWard

    NickWard Member

    Hi Tom!

    Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you liked them! and I'm very interested!, please do show! :)


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