2719641 Guardsman Gerald MURRAY, 2 Irish Guards: 17/09/1940

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by dbf, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  2. I will shortly be leading a tour of this cemetery and I would like to find out more about the circumstances of Gerald Murray's death. I would be grateful for any information.

    Thanks

    Nigel
     
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  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    A book 'The Rifles Are There: 1st & 2nd Battalions The Royal Ulster Rifles in the Second World War' by David Orr, published 2020, on pg. 241 refers to:
    His brother James Michael Murray, was born in Belfast and lived in Co. Armagh, he was killed in France 29/5/1940. From same book.

    Gerald is the only soldier of that name who died in WW2, from CWGC records.

    September 1940 was the height of the London Blitz and a search could not identify more.

    Hopefully that is the answer!
     
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  4. Thanks, davidbfpo.

    23 army fatalities on that date and commemorated in UK and several hundred civilian fatalities.
     
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  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    From a book summary:
    From Post 62: 2nd Armoured Battalion, Irish Guards:
     
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  6. Thanks, as I do not know when Gerald enlisted, I am not sure if he participated in the two events recorded.

    Nigel
     
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  7. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    True, it does give a little context. I expect the two brothers joined up together, albeit to different units.
     
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  8. More than likely, although James was seven years older than Gerald. I have not found any newspaper references to either lad, but the most likely Belfast paper, the Irish News, is not available on the British Newspaper Archive.
     
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  9. Does David Orr's book include any details of parents for James Michael Murray? I am not finding a birth registration match for James with the same parental names as Gerald. Thanks.
     
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  10. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    No, very brief details only in the book.
     
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  11. OK, thanks again for your assistance.
     
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  12. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

  13. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    For completeness Nigel, the appropriate entries from "THE RIFLES ARE THERE" by David Orr & David Truesdale (first published 2005, Reprinted 2013 - the reprint is the edition I have). Please see photos of the pages below. There are no other references to the chaps within the book.

    They are a bit of a puzzle, maybe some error? (you'll see what I mean!). There is no mention of the Rifleman James Murray being a brother of Guardsman Gerald Murray.

    The war diary or 2 Irish Guards covering 17 September 1940 may hold the answer as to the circumstances of Guardsman Murray's death (given that he is, according to CWGC, the only Irish Guardsman, from any of their battalions, to have died on that date). Said war diary is within The National Archives, reference WO 166/4105 (INFANTRY: 2 Irish Guards. | The National Archives) but it is not digitised and the timescale you are working with for your tour may preclude obtaining a copy from there.

    Good luck with all your searching, kind regards, always,

    Jim.

    P.S. Rifleman Hugh Crangle and Guardsman Gerald Murray; brothers?

    The Rifles Are There ORR & TRUESDALE cover.jpg

    The Rifles Are There ORR & TRUESDALE page 49 CRANGLE.jpg

    The Rifles Are There ORR & TRUESDALE page 219 HUGH CRANGLE & GERALD MURRAY.jpg

    The Rifles Are There ORR & TRUESDALE page 241 JAMES MURRAY.jpg
     
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  14. I have used BNA which has three of the Belfast newspapers but not the Irish News. As Gerald Murray was a Roman Catholic, it is more likely that there would be an entry or In Memoriam Notice in the Irish News.
     
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  15. Jim

    "P.S. Rifleman Hugh Crangle and Guardsman Gerald Murray; brothers?"

    At best they would be half-brothers! Gerald was born on 21st April 1918 at Greencastle to John Murray, a fireman, and Elizabeth Black. As Hugh seems to have been born around 1914, I will need to check if Elizabeth had been previously married to Henry Crangle before marrying John Murray.
     
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  16. Hmmm. I cannot find
    (1) a registration of a marriage between Henry Crangle and a lady called Elizabeth in Ireland,
    (2) a registration of the birth of a Hugh Crangle in Ireland in the 1910-1920 period, or
    (3) a relevant Henry Crangle in the 1911 Census of Ireland.

    It is possible that the Crangle family was from GB and moved to Ireland or Northern Ireland after the birth of Hugh.

    I am not convinced that Hugh Crangle and Gerald Murray were related - Gerald's only brother was John Joseph Murray born on 12th May 1913.
     
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  17. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    And there's the puzzle Nigel.

    As far as the information from "The Rifles Are There" goes I think only the authors will have the answer to that content.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
  18. Jim - I will have to ask the two Davids ;-)
     
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