2695843 Charles BROWNE, 2 Scots Guards

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by Paul Nield, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Hi there thanks for accepting me . Not sure how things work on here. I'm not ex forces but here looking for any information I can regarding my grandad.
    He was in 2nd battalion of Scots guards. Already stationed in NortN Africa when war broke out ( my nan says they were original desert rats not Montys mob) . He was captured and taken to Italy , where he was POW in camp no 70 Monturano ( ferma/ Parma) post mark 3300.
    We know he was captured and escaped couple of times, staying with partisans in monte visconti, until crossing Alps to Switzerland. I do have some casualty list numbers and his service number
     
  2. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    Welcome
    I shall now chant the traditional mantra for such occasions
    "You need to apply for his service record
    You only need his name ,date of birth
    Do not spend money on any commercial services for this but use the MoD"
    There are forms for this and links exist on the forum but I'm, sure someone will post one.

    Good hunting
     
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  3. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Welcome aboard.
     
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  4. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Thanks Robert I'll have a look
     
  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Here is the MOD link -

    Requests for personal data and service records: a detailed guide

    You should also consider applying to Red Cross in Switzerland for his POW records via this link -

    Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

    You’ll need to be up early to check the website about 8am 20th Jan 2020 and if it isn’t open check every 30 minutes. Once it is open you need to quickly complete the online application form as the “application window” usually closes within 2 hours of opening due to over subscription.

    Steve

    PS

    IIRC correctly 2nd Scots Guards were Garrison troops in Cairo 1940/41 and didn’t go into the Western Desert with the first wave in July 1940 and weren’t involved in the early 1941 advance into Libya. They were only committed to fighting in April 1941 when Rommel made his first invasion of Egypt.

    Edit to add

    2nd Battalion Scots Guards

    If you use the forum search facility for “2nd Scots Guards” you’ll likely turn up more.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  6. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Thankyou so much for this information much appreciated. My uncle ( since passed) knew much of the information about my grandad, my nan is now 93 and memory not as good. I know he was already out in Egypt when war broke trobruk and knightsbridge box were mentioned. He was also affiliated to the LRDG too we only know a little info about driving . Thanks again
     
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  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    My mother’s cousin was 2nd SG 1935/38 and was posted to 1st SG before 2nd SG went to Egypt (likely in anticipation of his discharge 1939). He was wounded and captured at Mo I Rana in Norway May 1940.

    My father was pre war 3rd CG serving in Alexandria & Palestine (active Service 1938/39). He went onto the Western Desert in July 1940 and returned with his Battalion to take over Scots Guards bug infested accommodation in Kasr el Nil Barracks, Cairo Jan 1941. He went back into the Western Desert in April 1941 was captured during the Op Crusader advance at Antelat, Libya December 1941. He was POW in Italy until September 1943 before being sent to Germany.

    Please post your relatives name and army number as I have a LRDG nominal roll from July 1941.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  8. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Hi Steve, my grandads name was charles Browne, service number 2695843.
    He was taken prisoner at " Regal ridge" and was taken to Swani ben adam camp then transferred to Italy. From camp in Italy ( probably P.O.W camp no 70 Monturano ( Parma) post mark 3300 )they were used as a working party in Garlasro.
    From here he escaped to motta visconti and joined the Italian partisans before trekking across Alps in Switzerland
     
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  9. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    I can’t see him listed on the 31st July 1941 LRDG nominal roll. I can see 10 SG with 269 series Army service numbers. SG seem to be in the minority in G Patrol LRDG at that date as there are more CG noted with 265 series army service numbers. G Patrol Commanding Officer Captain Michel Crichton-Stuart SG wrote the post war history of G Patrol. It is well worth a read -

    G Patrol

    Steve
     
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  10. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Browne_01.jpg

    Browne_02.jpg

    Browne_03.jpg

    Browne_04.jpg
     
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  11. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    The National Archives also possess a report on his escape via Switzerland:

    First name(s) C
    Last name Browne
    Service number 2695843
    Rank Guardsman
    Regiment Scots Guards
    Year 1942
    Date of capture 1942-06-13
    Interviewed in Switzerland 1943-12-10
    Conflict World War 2
    Country Great Britain
    Series WO208/4369
    The National Archives series WO208
    Series name POW - Escape via Switzerland - report
    The National Archives piece number 4369
    Record set Prisoners Of War 1715-1945
     
  12. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Thankyou that's fantastic information where can I get copies of these?
     
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  13. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Thanks steve I have seen some reports where his service number begins with 3 instead of 2 but it is also noted about this mistake
     
  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    The questionnaire link posted above by harkness isn't available online - like the vast majority of WW2 records.

    If you can’t get to UK National Archives yourself your best option might be to contact one of the forum members who offer a NA documents copy & look up service (vastly cheaper than NA copying prices). Contact Drew5233 or PsyWar.Org via forum Personal Message system.They might be able to also let you have the 2nd SG War Diary as well.

    Steve
     
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  15. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Thanks so much guys for this information really means alot to me and my family. My grandad would have turned 100 this coming 6th jan
     
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  16. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Paul,

    I’m at the archives at the moment. I can copy it tomorrow if you like.

    Regards,
    Gary.
     
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  17. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Very kind offer Gary. I’ve alerted the OP to your post via PM and invited him to post a response.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  18. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    Yes please Gary if you wouldn't mind I'd be ever so grateful
     
  19. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    FB_IMG_1578080793724.jpg
     
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  20. Paul Nield

    Paul Nield Member

    I have just got some pics of my grandad , in Cairo along with fellow guards, also of Italian partisans in motta visconti if anyone be interested in seeing. I also have a letter written by my grandad in 1985 which was to assist his friend for war pension etc it gives a brief but good insight into what he endured ?
     

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