25pdr gun crews help

Hi chaps

One for the RA guys I hope you can help

Can you help with the following please?

1. How many men operated a 25pdr and what were their roles/ranks (NWE)?
2. Did the RA crews generally wear a gun badge on their sleeves or was this a rank distinction? If so what rank and role would this be?
3. Would officers be anywhere near an individual gun crew or further back directing the gun line? What officers are we talking about and what would their roles/ranks be?

I recall reading somewhere that 25pdr crews wouldn’t always wear the formation patches of the infantry divisions they were attached to is that right? Or is there no hard and fast rule to this?

As anyone got any good in action photos or can point me in the right direction of some, ta?

Hope you can help

Cheers

Smudge

 

Field regiments had 5 men and RHA had 6 i believe, can't really help anymore but will dig out a photo of RHA gun in action and post it here.

 

RHA Libya 1940

View attachment 69199

 

The establishment questions should be answered here.

 

RHA Libya 1940

View attachment 69199

Hi Rat

That pic shows 6 on the gun which ties in with the establishment figures shown elsewhere on this thread. But note that this RHA gun is a 25 pounder Mk 1 aka 18/25 pounder (or possibly just an 18 pounder) on the Mk VP carriage (split trail and pneumatic tyres) and just possibly could have a different crew from the ordinary common or garden 25 pounder Mk II.

I would very much doubt that the number of men on the gun would vary between RA and RHA (given the same gun). No doubt the gunner experts will explain!

Chris

 

Hi Rat

That pic shows 6 on the gun which ties in with the establishment figures shown elsewhere on this thread. But note that this RHA gun is a 25 pounder Mk 1 aka 18/25 pounder (or possibly just an 18 pounder) on the Mk VP carriage (split trail and pneumatic tyres) and just possibly could have a different crew from the ordinary common or garden 25 pounder Mk II.

I would very much doubt that the number of men on the gun would vary between RA and RHA (given the same gun). No doubt the gunner experts will explain!

Chris

I was told the extra man had something to do with the horses originally used by RHA, when the horses were got rid of, the extra man was kept, but there again I could have had my leg pulled

HEReS A LINK to the thread

 

Rob Dickers is the arty guy. I am sure a PM to him will nail down the answer.

 

25Pdr Gun Crew
The crew was six men.
- No 1 was a sergeant who commanded the gun detachment.
- No 2 operated the breech
- No 3 was the gun layer. He sat on the left hand side and controlled both the gun laying (using a dial sight) and the elevation (using a sight clinometer)
- No 4 was the loader who loaded shell and charge after showing them to the No1
- No 5 passed ammunition to No4
- No 6 was stationed at the limber to unload ammunition from the trays and select the correct charge.

Does this help you

 

Rob Dickers is the arty guy. I am sure a PM to him will nail down the answer.

Cheers Randy
There are a lot more Arty Bods on here i'am sure more knowledgeable than myself.
The No6 was the Coverer 2i/c of the gun.Bombardier rank, ic fusing.
Best
Rob

 

EDIT
posted twice

 

25Pdr Gun Crew
The crew was six men.
- No 1 was a sergeant who commanded the gun detachment.
- No 2 operated the breech
- No 3 was the gun layer. He sat on the left hand side and controlled both the gun laying (using a dial sight) and the elevation (using a sight clinometer)
- No 4 was the loader who loaded shell and charge after showing them to the No1
- No 5 passed ammunition to No4
- No 6 was stationed at the limber to unload ammunition from the trays and select the correct charge.

Does this help you

Good post. I never knew those details. Thank God they weren't unionized!

 

Only member of the gun detachment (NOT crew, that's Royal Navy), with the gun above the stripes on both arms, Lance sergeants only wore the stripes.
Officers:
There was a Gun Position Officer, who was the subaltern officer responsible for a troop gun position. This subaltern was responsible for orienting and maintaining the troop's parallelism and for the production of firing data in the troop Command Post. In addition there would be the Command Post Officer, who was responsible for the Battery Command Post and had overall technical control of the battery.
Of course, there were Forward Observation Officers as well, but they weren't at the Gun Position, butr forward with the supported unit.

Phil

 

Rob/Op-Ack

Thanks for adding the extra information to my basic post, it has taught me a lot about what my grandfather did in the WWI.

 

Only member of the gun detachment (NOT crew, that's Royal Navy), with the gun above the stripes on both arms, Lance sergeants only wore the stripes.
Officers:
There was a Gun Position Officer, who was the subaltern officer responsible for a troop gun position. This subaltern was responsible for orienting and maintaining the troop's parallelism and for the production of firing data in the troop Command Post. In addition there would be the Command Post Officer, who was responsible for the Battery Command Post and had overall technical control of the battery.
Of course, there were Forward Observation Officers as well, but they weren't at the Gun Position, butr forward with the supported unit.

Phil

Thanks Phil; couldn't get my head around that first bit could you elaborate please, the bit about the gun badge ( is that a Master Gunner?).

Me being a bit thick how many guns in a troop/battery?

...and would the CPO be higher rank than the Gun Position Officer, say a Captain?

Cheers

Smudge

 

The No6 was the Coverer 2i/c of the gun.Bombardier rank, ic fusing.

Hi Rob

So NCO's on the gun would be the IC a Sergeant and the 2i/c a Bombadier. Any Lance Bombadiers or all privates?

Cheers

Smudge

 

As anyone got any good in action photos or can point me in the right direction of some, ta?


I'd especially like to see some shots of uniforms and insignia even if living history types.

Hope you can help

Cheers

Smudge

 

Thanks Phil; couldn't get my head around that first bit could you elaborate please, the bit about the gun badge ( is that a Master Gunner?).

Me being a bit thick how many guns in a troop/battery?

...and would the CPO be higher rank than the Gun Position Officer, say a Captain?

Cheers

Smudge

Smudge

No not a Master Gunner (He was/is equivalent to a RSM), the gun above the stripes signifies a "full" sergeant. Master Gunners wear the Royal Coat of Arms with the Gun Badge beneath it on their cuffs.

CPO's and GPO's could both be of the same rank, generally lieutenants or second lieutenants. The Battery was commanded by a Major, (The BC - Battery Commander) with a Battery Captain (BK) who could in fact be a sergeant (just to confuse you more). BK would be in charge of the Wagon Lines (where the gun tractors and spare Limbers would be kept whilst in action. He was responsible for the ammunition supply.

There were generally 6 guns in a Battery, divided into two or three sections (Left, Centre and Right). As you say, No. 1 was a Sergeant, the Coverer was generally a Bombardier, and there could be Lance Bombardiers as well as Gunners making up the remainder of the detachment.

I hope that's clear, trouble is, I know what I mean, but I am not always very good at explaining it!

If you need anything else, please ask and I will try and assist.

Phil

 

This is the Master Gunner's insignia, as worn today, WW2 was similar. The same gun badge is worn above the Sergeants stripes.

 

252 gunners1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

this shows a gun crew on the range , in their positions on the Gun .


Oh dear
Phil won't be happy
:biggrin: