24th Lancers A Squadron

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by STEPHEN ROPER, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. STEPHEN ROPER

    STEPHEN ROPER Member

    I can't tell what the name is on tank , but thank you for the information, because the 24th Lancers got dispanded by end of July 1944 makes things confusing
     
  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    The name of the tank is 'Take It Easy'. I believe the whole crew were transferred together from 24th Lancers to 1st Battalion Royal Tank Regiment (aka 1RTks aka 1RTR) when the 24L were disbanded (proof is on the Disbandment Roll) and the photo was taken when they were in A Squadron 1RTks. Evidence will follow later when I've had a chance to process a couple of images and cross check the information. A bit of a Eureka moment!

    Incidentally, his Service Records will answer a lot of questions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  3. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    These are scans of photos lent to me many years ago by Stan Goodman - sadly now deceased. One of the photos is clearly the same as the one shown in Post#16. Small World!

    While there is good evidence (ref earlier post etc) that Roper was in C Squadron 24th Lancers and the chaps in the photos may/will have been in the same 24L crew, there is also good evidence via the 24L Disbandment List that the crew were transferred together to 1RTR.

    I believe the photos were taken when they were in A Squadron 1RTR (even though one of the photos mentions C Squadron -possibly Stan was suffering conflation?): note that the Cap Badges appear to be RTR rather than 24L. A Eureka moment in that you now have photos of the Firefly tank and its' crew complete with names - that's actually quite a rare thing!
    Take It Easy.jpg

    Take It Easy reverse side.jpg

    Take It Easy crew.jpg
    Take It Easy crew reverse side.jpg
     
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  4. STEPHEN ROPER

    STEPHEN ROPER Member


    Blimey what a small world , i have pictures from my Grandads photo album similar also not sure if same tank in other picture?

    I am confused through as my grandads tracer card says he was in the 1st Tank Regiment in early 1940s and when left 24th Lancers , he transffered to the 5th Tank Regiment on 1/8/1944 Untitled.png Lads relaxing.jpg
     
  5. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Lower photo is a different Firefly: for example note the bolted transmission casing at the front and the 53 AOS marking compared to Take It Easy which has the single piece transmission housing and name readily visible and a two part AOS (emblem at the top and lower number)...and there are also lots of other differences so definitely a different Tank.

    Many years since I spoke to her but I'm now wondering if Stan's widow is still alive and living at their old address.....
     
  6. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    According to the Disbandment List, your grandad moved, as did Stan et alia, to 1RTR and I'm aware of others, including my dad's close friend Stan Ryder, who also transferred from 24L to 1RTR. The Tracer Card could, however, still be correct as there could have been a last minute change because both 1RTR and 5RTR were in the 22nd Armoured Brigade which was itself part of the 7th Armoured Division (The Desert Rats). The Service Records will have the answer....but there could also be clues in those tank markings mentioned in my previous post (split AOS v 53 etc).
     
  7. Grandiose find Steve! As you said, a very rare thing!

    'Take It Easy' is clearly a tank of 22 Armoured Brigade, 7 Armoured Division from the markings on the transmission. Although the lower part of the AoS Serial Number below the 22 Armd Bde sign (on the right of the tank - left on the photo) are faded or stained, we can still recognise the top of the number '53'.

    This should be 4 CLY (with 51 for 1 R Tks and 52 for 5 R Tks), but markings in this Brigade were notoriously volatile so I need to double check.

    Additionally, it looks like the 'a' in 'Easy' is deliberately missing, rather than obliterated or worn off: the base of the large 'E' is slightly lower than the 'sy' when it should have been aligned with the rest of the word had the 'a' been present at some time., and the space where the 'a' should be seems too narrow: the actual spelling must be 'Take it E sy'.
    Take It E sy - Notes.jpg

    Michel
     
  8. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Michel

    Your analysis appears spot on re the letters and markings. Also 1RTR and 5RTR both joined and left 22AB at the same time. Am I right in thinking that the AOS would have been changed when the CLY battalions merged? (I hope I've remembered that correctly!).

    Steve
     
  9. STEPHEN ROPER

    STEPHEN ROPER Member

    Okay just thought would see if it was, how old was Stan when he die? How old was his wife?
     
  10. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Simple answer is I don't know...but I do have their old address and phone number.

    Stan lent me his photos in 2003 according to the date stamp on the image files...gosh, seems like yesterday.

    PS: a few more surprises to follow later tonight (Dinner currently beckons!) including a photo of Stan at the last 24th Lancers Old Comrades Association Annual Reunion (the photo has been uploaded on the Forum before but I can't remember where...)
     
  11. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Michel

    This is a cropped version of the image (the version uploaded earlier had to be resized to make it uploadable!)

    Definitely a 53 on the AoS.

    Take It Easy cropped.jpg
     
  12. STEPHEN ROPER

    STEPHEN ROPER Member

    Thank You SDP, can i ask what is the frame for on the front of the tank?
     
  13. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Good question. Sorry but I haven't a clue...
     
  14. STEPHEN ROPER

    STEPHEN ROPER Member

    Maybe something to with camelflarge netting or storage
     
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  15. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    ….and as promised in Post#30
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Yes, the frame on the front of the tank is for stowage of impedimenta. Its unusually large size is allowed by the absence of a bow machine gun on Fireflies, and the high position of the episcope for the driver, located on top of his escape hatch or "hood".

    After checking, AoS Serial Number 53 is indeed for the 5th Battalion, Royal Tank Regiment (official abbreviation 5 R Tks, usual one 5 RTR) from 29 July 1944, with 51 for 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards (5 DG) and 52 for 1st Battalion, Royal Tank Regiment (1 R Tks or 1 RTR).

    This makes 'Take it E sy" a Sherman Ic Hybrid of A Sqn, 5 R Tks, 22 Armd Bde, 7 Armd Div, the colour of the triangle or delta on its turret being Blue.

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  17. I suppose that the repeated mention of C Sqn on the back of both photos refers to the crew's former Sqn in 24 L, rather than to its current belonging to A Sqn 1 R Tks.

    Alternatively, 'Take it E sy' might have been moved from A to C Sqn within 5 R Tks before the photos were shot, with no time or real urge to change the tac sign on the turret.
     
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  18. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Stephen

    Reference a 'Conversation' message re address and phone number, the trail has run dry. Stan died in 2009.
     
  19. STEPHEN ROPER

    STEPHEN ROPER Member

    Thank you for your help
    Thank you for trying, my grandfather died when he was 52
     
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  20. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Just a thought about why the E in the Tanks name is larger than the other letters. E is the fifth letter of the alphabet so matches the convention of 5 R Tks vehicles names 'starting' with the letter E. I know a similar 'trick' was played in 24L when Roy Tomalins A Squadron tank was named Appy Hampstead.
     

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