23rd Indian Division

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by ANN, Nov 23, 2008.

  1. ANN

    ANN Junior Member

    Just trying to get info on my dad

    Sgt Albert Ernest Longmore
    123 Ind. Ord. Sub. PK
    23rd Indian Division
    I think he ended up as a RSM and stayed on after 1945 for a while

    I know he was in the Grenadier Guards to begin with and want to know

    1.Why he ended up in India (can't see any Guards in India/Burma)
    2.Was he in ordnance? If so what would he have done
    3. What is a sub park or whatever the letters stand for?
    4.ANY additional info anyone could give me.
    Regards Ann
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Ann and welcome.

    I hope these links help for starters :)

    23rd Infantry Division (India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    There is a 23 Ordance mentioned in the Divisions Orbat which is Field Park-I think this may be your PK?

    History and Commanders of 23 Indian Infantry Division [British Commonwealth]

    Fighting Cock: Being the History of the 23rd Indian Division, 1942-1947 at BiggerBooks.com - Doulton, A. J. F., 9781843424628, History
    By the title of the book and the Division emblem you can see the division was called the 'Fighting Cock'


    Untitled Document
    Some info about the Indian Army Ordnance Corps

  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Welcome to the forum Ann,
    Have you applied for his Service Records yet?
    See here>> Service records - Army

    Also I suggest contacting the GG at

    Grenadier Guards Regimental Archives
    Wellington Barracks
    Birdcage Walk
    SW1E 6HQ

    Tel: 020 7414 3221

    They should be able to tell you about his time in the Guards.
    Maybe he just got fed up with being a Guardsman and felt like a change.
  4. Anthony Carr

    Anthony Carr WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Ann from Anthony, welcome. I can't help very much but I was in an Indian (Gurkha) Brigade of 23 Indian Division and one of my books gives the followng,"55 Ordnance Field Park IAOC (23 Div Sub-Park 1944, 123 Sub-Park 1945) (1942-N0v1946)" November 1946 was when we left Java and returned to Malaya and the Division became a part of Malaya Command. By this time all release groups up "46" would have returned home. This may tie-in with other information you'll collect. Good luck. Anthony.
  5. ANN

    ANN Junior Member

    Thank you everyone.
    I have looked at the info but i dont know what a field park or sub park are so can anyone enlighten me?
    I live in Australia so any info from the Guards will take ages and cost a packet in Australian dollars...our currency seems to be in freefall !!
    Is it possible to find out if dad was in Imphal....he did mention Poona and Jubulpur
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    If no one can help on here I ref Field Park/ Sub Park etc. You may try asking a Austrailian Military Museum like a Logistics one if you have one down there :)
  7. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I've pinched this from the rather wonderful Trux models website. It relates to Corps within 21st Army Group in NWEurope but the basis idea is there.

    This is their website :-


    The reference for a Corps Ordnance Field Park is War Establishment table III/289/1 with an effective date of December 1943.

    The role of the Corps Ordnance Field Park was to hold stocks of weapons, vehicles and communications equipment and spare parts or assemblies for them. In many cases these were items which were too bulky or specialised to be held by the Divisional Ordnance Field Park. Although it was a Corps unit it was allocated on the basis of one Ordnance Sub Park per division and the Sub Park followed the division if it moved from one corps to another.

    A Corps Ordnance Field Park consisted of
    - a Headquarters
    - a Corps/Army Troops Sub Park
    - an Infantry Division Sub Park for each infantry division in the corps
    - an Armoured Division Field Park for each armoured division in the corps

    The basic organisation for planning assumed that a corps would consist of two infantry divisions and one armoured division. However there were sufficient sub parks for there to be one per division and the allocation was flexible.

    Each of the Sub Parks had the same basic organisation

    - Headquarters

    - No 1 Section holding complete armaments, signal, wireless and engineering equipments and small arms.

    - No 2 Section holding spares and assemblies for MT, armament, signal, wireless and engineering stores and small arms.

    - No3 Section holding replacement technical vehicles and trailers.

    Headquarters of a Corps Ordnance Field Park
    Lieutenant Colonel, Ordnance Officer 2nd Class
    Captain for regimental duties
    Subaltern, Ordnance Officer 4th Class

    Warrant Officer Class I clerk for RAOC duties
    Company Serjeant Major for regimental duties
    serjeant for regimental duties
    corporal clerk for RAOC duties
    corporal clerk
    lance corporal driver mechanic
    lance corporal despatch rider
    2 X clerk
    2 X driver mechanic
    batman driver
    2 X despatch rider

    telecommunications mechanic REME

    3 X motorcycle
    1 X car 4 seater 4 X 2
    1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4 jeep
    1 X 15cwt GS
    2 X 15cwt water
    1 X 3 ton 6 X 4 GS as Office

    Corps/ Army Troops Sub Park
    Major, Ordnance Officer 3rd Class
    Captain, Ordnance Officer 4th Class

    serjeant clerk for RAOC duties
    serjeant clerk
    corporal clerk
    lance corporal driver mechanic
    2 X driver mechanic

    batman driver
    2 X driver IC
    2 X general dutyman
    2 X regimental dutymen
    sanitary dutyman
    water dutyman

    corporal cook ACC
    3 X cook ACC

    1 X motorcycle
    1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4
    1 X 15cwt GS
    1 X 15cwt water
    1 X 3ton 4 X 2 battery storage
    1 X 3ton 6 X 4 Office
    1 X 3ton 6 X 4 GS for deliveries
    1 X 3ton 6 X 4 Crane

    No 1 Section
    Staff Serjeant Clerk for RAOC duties
    clerk for RAOC duties
    corporal storeman
    4 X storeman, technical
    driver IC

    The storeman include
    1 for armament
    1 for engineer stores
    2 for signal and wireless
    1 for small arms

    electrician REME
    telecommunications mechanic REME

    1 X motorcycle
    1 X15cwt GS
    2 X 3 ton 4 X 5 stores, binned, Type S
    2 X 3ton 6 X 4 GS for Vote 9 stores

    No 2 Section
    Subaltern, Ordnance Officer 4th Class
    Warrant Officer Class II Clerk
    serjeant clerk for RAOC duties
    2 X corporal clerk for RAOC duties
    3 X lance corporal clerk for RAOC duties
    7 X clerk for RAOC duties

    Staff Serjeant Technical Storeman
    2 X corporal technical storeman
    4 X lance corporal storeman, technical
    18 X storeman, technical

    driver mechanic
    batman driver
    8 X driver IC

    The storeman include
    3 for armament
    2 for engineer stores
    11 for MT stores
    6 for signal and wireless
    2 for small arms
    1 for general and clothing

    telecommunication engineer REME

    1 X motorcycle
    1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4
    Owen likes this.
  8. ANN

    ANN Junior Member

    Thanks again...the info on the field/sub parks helped a lot...now i have to try to find out if 123 ord sub park
    23rd indian division were in Imphal....maybe someone was there too or their dads
    Regards everyone
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  10. ANN

    ANN Junior Member

    Just an update......for all those kind people who were so helpful

    Got my dad's details from U.K....VERY QUICK AND HELPFUL and FREE as my mum requested them...can't get much better than that!!!!.
    I think I have solved the problem of how my dad ended up in India after joining the Guards....apparently he must have been very sick in 1943/4 as he was in and out of hopspitals/ convalescent homes etc and then put on the "Y" list.....correct me if I am wrong but I believe that meant he could be re deployed to any unit...in his case the RAOC

    A couple of extra questions which someone may be able to help me with:

    1. Is there any list of military hospitals/ records etc so I can try to find out what was wrong with him? As far as I know he was in the following hosp...which may give a clue a. Caterham Mil Hosp b. Hindhead Conv Centre c Aux Hosp Hassolwry Park
    d. Shiley or Hinley Mil Hosp e. Milit Hosp Caterham
    2. What does RSWZZ mean?
    3. Are there any lists of troop ships to and from India which I could cross reference with the dates he went to and from India?

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