23rd Hussars, list of all officers?

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by 8RB, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Could anyone tell me where to find a list of all officers that served with the 23rd Hussars? If it makes any difference: I am specifically looking for NW Europe period (June 1944 - May 1945). Any help much appreciated!

    Cheers, Ronald.
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  3. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Hello dbf, and thanks for your reply.

    I am afraid The Story of the 23rd Hussars 1940-1946 does not contain a full list, but only the names of those being killed or wounded, or having received honors and awards. So I think I need to look at the Army list.

    One question on these lists: would they, for a certain date or month, show all officers actively servicing with the regiment at that moment? Or does the list only show officers with their parent regiment, some of which who might actually be serving with another regiment? And could the 23rd Hussars for instance also have employed officers who in the Army list are shown with another regiment (their parent regiment, e.g. RTR)? I hope my question is understandable and that somebody knows the answer...

    Regards, Ronald.
     
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    The lists were published on a quarterly basis, so would cover the situation as at the end of each 3 month period.
    They show all those with the parent regiment, i.e. holding a commission in it, but do not show who was in a combat role which I think is what you are after.
    There are annotations however e.g. for personnel who were "specially employed"


    To give you an idea, this is a transcript of one year which I did ...
    Irish Guards: Quarterly Army Lists 1944

    and this man was with SOE at the time of publication before his return to the regiment and his death...

    X DORMER H E J, DSO - (War Substantive Lieutenant - 16/05/1941) (Temporary Captain - 11/09/1943) spec. emp. -16/11/1939

    There are other Sections within the publication but I haven't explored them, perhaps someone else could better explain what else the Army Lists provide by way of information about individuals.


    The Officer Field returns in a war diary would give greater detail as well as more relevant information as regards participation in a combat role. They would also show when someone was wounded, when they were transferred, what role they played within the unit, when they were LOB, with Echelon or holding unit, on leave etc.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Thanks! I now know I need to look for 23H "Field return of officers" lists. I know I have seen them from other regiments. Think they were published monthly? I do have the 1944 War Diary of 23H, and it does not contain these lists. Does anyone know where to find them?

    Ronald.
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    The Field Returns would have been completed by the unit on a weekly basis (see heading in above example "For Week Ending ...") and filed in the War Diary's Appendices with the relevant month.

    Does your copy of the War diary include other Appendices like Sitreps, Intel reports, movement orders, etc?

    If not, then you need to check the original file at TNA and possibly get another copy.


    If so and there are no field returns present, then generally speaking there is no simple solution. You could always try and re-construct them from various sources such as Orbats, Army Lists, Army Casualty, Gallantry, POW & Missing personnel lists as well as CWGC info.
     
  7. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    23H Officer Field Returns, June 1944.

    Officers_Jun44_01.JPG Officers_Jun44_02.JPG
     
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  8. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    23H Officers Field Returns, Sep 1944


    Officers_Sep44.JPG
     
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  9. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    I've enhanced the above files to make them bit more readable, though the problem of handwriting interpretation remains - as always. Here is a much more legible list of Officers who were present at the 23H Christmas dinner, 21st Jan 1945 (there were good reasons for the delay in their celebrations!):.
    Dinner_Jan45.jpg
     
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  10. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    This is great! Many, many thanks for this!

    Ronald.
     
  11. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    No probs, Ronald.

    If you have trouble with any of the names just let me know.
     
  12. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Thanks, but I believe I am alright.

    Also 8th Rifle Brigade had their Christmas delayed as you might know. Probably for the same reason...
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  13. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    More details about most of the men listed above:


    Reginald Perigrine Harding
    Born 3 Jul 1905 in Shanghai, China
    Died 1981 in Pontypool, Gwent, Wales.

    Cecil Hugh Blacker
    Born 4 Jun 1916 in York
    Died 18 Oct 2002 in Banbury, Oxfordshire.

    Algernon Desmond Wigan
    Born 7 Jul 1911 in Mortlake, Surrey
    Died 1989 in Andover, Hampshire.

    Leonard Dunbar Hagger
    Born 17 Jan 1918 in Dunbar, Scotland
    Died 15 Nov 1987 in Wayland, Middlesex, Massachusetts, USA.

    Judah Garcia
    Born 2 Jun 1904 in London
    Died 1993 in Colchester, Essex.

    Thomas Edward Harte
    Born 14 May 1921
    Died 5 Mar 2011 in Eastbourne Hospital, Sussex.

    David Crisp Turquand
    Born 4 Oct 1919 in Brighton, Sussex
    Died 2001 in Leominster, Herefordshire.

    Charles Valentine O'Reilly
    Born 1909 in Granard, Ireland.

    Frederick John Shearman
    Born 30 Mar 1912 in Hereford
    Died 1974 in Blackpool and Fylde, Lancs.

    John William George Sandford
    Born 15 Apr 1916 in Kingsbridge, Devon
    Died October 5, 2001 in East Devon.

    Harry Llewellyn Blackman
    Born 13 Oct 1914 in Honolulu
    Died 10 Jun 1979 in Barton on Sea, Hants.

    Ian Somerville Geikie
    Born 27 Nov 1919
    Died 1990 in Barnstaple, Devon.

    Geoffrey Sydney Charles Bishop
    Born 13 Jan 1909 in Richmond, Surrey
    Died 1967 in Surrey.

    John Mervyn Addison
    Born 16 Mar 1920 in Chobham, Surrey
    Died 7 Dec 1998 in Bennington County, Vermont, USA.

    Henry Charles Malcolm
    Born 15 Mar 1909 in Portsmouth, Hampshire
    Died 1981 in North Buckinghamshire.

    John Michael Weiner
    Born 21 Mar 1918 in Vienna, Austria
    Died 1997 in Aylesbury Vale, Bucks.

    Foster Charles Lowry Lamb (2nd Baron Rochester)
    Born 7 June 1916
    Died 6 February 2017 in Knutsford, Cheshire (aged 100).

    Frederick Sydney Ponsford
    Born 25 Nov 1919 in London
    Died 2000 in Tower Hamlets, London.

    Richard Maldon Payne
    Born 1922 in Epsom, Surrey.

    Donald James Drake
    Born 23 Feb 1922 in Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Died Oct 2004 in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.

    Richard Fitzgibbon Leather
    Born 1922 in Edinburgh
    Died 4 Dec 1989 in Malindi, Kenya.

    John Oliver Haines
    Born 15 Jun 1922 in Weymouth, Dorset
    Died 11 March 2005 in Chelmsford, Essex.

    George Valentine Vickers
    Born 8 Jan 1923 in Worcestershire
    Died 16 Nov 1987 in Sutton Coldfield.

    Stanley Bates
    Born 27 Nov 1921 in Halifax
    Died 1990 in Hull, East Yorks.

    Stephen Maxwell Young
    Born 31 Aug 1916 in Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire
    Died Jun 1974 in Plymouth, Devon.

    Bernard Anthony Bowers
    Born 17 May 1921 in Mansfield, Notts
    Died 1999 in Newark, Notts.

    Arthur John Hawkins
    Born 10 Jul 1923n in Reigate, Surrey
    Died 1971 in Eton, Bucks.

    James Gordon Procter
    Born 12 Feb 1919 in London
    Died 1995 in Hampshire.

    Michael Anthony Gordon-Smith
    Born 29 Mar 1923

    John W Justham
    Born 1919 in Cardiff.

    John Theodore Cooper Steinhart
    Born 31 Mar 1923 in Brentford
    Died 1995 in Bristol, Gloucestershire.

    Geoffrey Woodland
    Born 1923 in Romford, Essex
    Died 1964 in Romford, Essex.

    Bruce Bernard Hansen
    Born 1923 in Holland.

    Eric Walter Kohn
    Born 15 Sep 1917 in Hackney, London
    Died 1999 in Barnet, Hertfordshire.

    Stanley Herbert Goss
    Born 2 Mar 1924 in Ilford, Essex
    Died 15 Feb 2011 in Brentwood, Essex.

    Richard Arthur Petley
    Born 14 Aug 1923 in Andover, Hampshire
    Died 4 Jan 1948 in Queen Alexandra Military Hospital, Millbank, London.

    (Sir) Philip Shelbourne
    Born 15 June 1924 in Wandsworth, London
    Died 15 April 1993 in Salisbury, Wiltshire.

    Michael G Graham
    Born 1923 in Rugby, Warwickshire.

    Eric Gerald Hunt
    Born 1924 in Wandsworth, London.

    James Leslie Martin
    Born 4 Oct 1915 in Rugby, Warwickshire
    Died 13 Mar 1961 at Gulson Hospital, Coventry.

    Robert Weddell Patterson
    Born 6 Aug 1914 in Sunderland, Durham
    Died 24 May 1965 in Selby, Yorks.

    Geoffrey Frederick Schoelles
    Born 1925 in Helensburgh, Dunbartonshire, Scotland
    Died 26 Sept 2008 in Birmingham.

    Wilfred James Gunn
    Born 11 Apr 1925 in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire
    Died 1987 in Wycombe, Bucks.

    Harry Burnett
    Born 26 Jul 1924 in Liverpool, Lancs
    Died 1996 at the Royal Hampshire County Hospital, Winchester.

    John Richard Malseed
    Born 26 Feb 1926 in Londonderry, Northern Ireland
    Died 1 June 2012 in Tiverton, Devon.

    Vincent Ashforth Blundell Dunkerly
    Born 1903 in Hessle, East Yorks
    Died 1968 in Aylesbury, Bucks.

    Christopher George Seymour
    Born 14 Aug 1913 in London
    Died 12 Nov 1983.in Basingstoke, Hampshire.

    Harcourt Michael Scudamore Gold
    Born 10 Jun 1908 in London
    Died 27 Feb 1982 in Winchester, Hampshire.

    Hugh Stuart Whitehill
    Born 21 May 1907 in Liverpool
    Died 1990 in Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales.

    Wilfrid Tom Jones
    Born 28 Dec 1906 in Hastings, Sussex
    Died 4 Feb 1991 in Dover, Kent

    James Fisher Scott Russell
    Born 1921 in Worksop
    Died 7 Jan 2012 in Slough, Bucks.

    Keith Norman Byard
    Born 1920 in Headington, Oxfordshire
    Died 24 Apr 2011 in Devon.

    James Hugh Evans
    Born 28 Aug 1920 in Birkenhead, Cheshire
    Died 1980 in St Mary, Platt, Kent.

    David Ferguson King
    Born 9 Aug 1914 in Brentford, Middlesex
    Died 16 Nov 1992 in Chippenham, Wiltshire.

    Adam Sutherland Cochrane
    Born 23 Apr 1910
    Died 3 Jan 1978 in Chelsea, London.

    Michael Frederick Morley MBE
    Born 7 Sep 1911 in Paddington, London
    Died 1990 in Swindon, Wiltshire.

    James Leslie Watt
    Born 25 Sep 1905 in Millbrook, Cornwall
    Died 12 Jul 1989 in Newton Ferrers, Devon.

    Jeremy Meddows Taylor
    Born 3 Aug 1907 in Devizes, Wilts
    Died 1985 in St Austell, Cornwall.

    Peter Chalice Walter
    Born 11 Mar 1915 in Bridge, Kent
    Died 1993 in New Romney, Kent.

    Clifford William Crouch
    Born 14 Jul 1915 in Croydon, Surrey
    Died 12 May 1983 in Westminster, London.

    Alexander Lewis Kerton
    Born 30 Jul 1917 in Essex
    Died 2002 in Thurrock, Essex.

    Michael Gunyon
    Born 20 Oct 1924 ín Richmond, Surrey
    Died Aug 1989 in Canterbury, Kent.

    John Wilfrid Da Cunha
    Born 6 Sep 1922 in Bucklow, Derbyshire
    Died 2006 in Somerset.

    Noel Haughton Riley
    Born 1924 in Manchester, Lancs.

    George Patrick Mitchell
    Born 25 Feb 1917 in Insch, Aberdeenshire
    Died died 2 Sep 1993 in Edinburgh.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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  14. Marcus H

    Marcus H Member

    2A072A78-7F30-43B4-9F96-98566242A8DE.jpeg I can’t believe I missed this thread!

    For some time now, I have been looking for further information on Capt. J. M. Weiner, as I own his C/FSC - very interesting to see that he was born in Austria, March 1918.

    Note the ‘cap badge’ is in fact a silver and gilt (‘S’ marked and from a J.R. Gaunt die) collar badge.

    Best,

    Marcus
     
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  15. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Interesting to see in post #9 that my old friend David Turquand is still showing 24th Lancers as his 'parent' Corps/Regiment.
     
  16. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Hi Marcus,

    More info about John Weiner (Intelligence Officer, 23H):

    Parents:

    Ludwig Weiner
    (Banker)
    Birth 1879 in Bratislava, Czechoslovakia
    Death 1968 in New York, United States of America

    Married

    Hedwig Blanche Monath
    Birth 1895 in Vienna, Austria
    Death Dec 1966 in Cuckfield, Sussex

    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    34 Crespigny Road, Hendon, Middlesex
    NAME DOB OCCUPATION
    Ludwig Wiener 13 Jul 1886 Lions Tradugles Managing Director
    Hedwig Wiener 12 Apr 1893 Unpaid Domestic Duties
    Charlotte Stechler (Wiener) 09 May 1916 Laboratory Assistant
    Edith Grant (Wiener) 27 Jul 1922 Seeking Work Not Previously Employed


    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    Trinity College, Trinity Street, Cambridge
    NAME ROLE DOB OCCUPATION
    John M Weiner I 21 Mar 1918 Law Student


    And look what he's wearing!
    Weiner_JM03.jpg
     
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  17. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    He went to the R.A. first:
    Turquand_DC_art.jpg

    Hull Daily Mail, 29 Aug 1945
    Article_HDM_1945-08-29.jpg
     
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  18. Marcus H

    Marcus H Member

    963C7BDA-F8DD-4FDE-BDC1-8C95945DDB76.jpeg Thank you very much - that’s absolutely fantastic information, Harkness.

    I’ve only really found snippets from the likes of the London Gazette concerning his promotions, and his eventual release from the Regular Reserve of Officers,’ where he’s no-less Major Weiner. Plus, of course his brief mention in the 1946 published book, too, as I recall.

    Best,

    Marcus
     
  19. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Many of the FSC's similar to that shown by Marcus, were made at Herbert Johnson's on Old Burlington Street W1.

    Herbert Johnson (hatters) - Wikipedia

    A fine scarce example by Herbert Johnson, 13 Burlington St, London W1. Scarlet curtain, body and peak and crown; the welt of the crown and top of the curtain ornamented with gold braid; the front with two flat gilt metal buttons of regimental pattern. To the left side, embroidered into the body of the cap, a large bullion eagle. The interior with silk lining. 14/20th Hussars.

    14:20th Hussars.jpg
     
  20. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Nice one to show in thread

    Favourite items in your WW2 collection
     

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