22 July 1942

Discussion in 'All Anniversaries' started by morse1001, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    On this day in history, the Germans began the evacuation of Jews from the Warsaw ghetto to Concentration Camps. Also, Treblinka began operations.

    Warsaw ghetto is no More
    here is something to think about
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by morse1001@Jul 22 2005, 08:20 AM
    On this day in history, the Germans began the evacuation of Jews from the Warsaw ghetto to Concentration Camps. Also, Treblinka began operations.

    Warsaw ghetto is no More
    here is something to think about
    [post=36718]Quoted post[/post]


    I watched the movie "The Pianist" a couple of nights ago. Have you seen it?

    Directed by Roman Polanski (I think).

    Very moving portrayal.
     
  3. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by spidge+Jul 22 2005, 03:32 AM-->(spidge @ Jul 22 2005, 03:32 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-morse1001@Jul 22 2005, 08:20 AM
    On this day in history, the Germans began the evacuation of Jews from the Warsaw ghetto to Concentration Camps. Also, Treblinka began operations.

    Warsaw ghetto is no More
    here is something to think about
    [post=36718]Quoted post[/post]


    I watched the movie "The Pianist" a couple of nights ago. Have you seen it?

    Directed by Roman Polanski (I think).

    Very moving portrayal.
    [post=36733]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]
    Not yet. will try and get a copy
     
  4. adrian roberts

    adrian roberts Senior Member

    Warsaw ghetto is no More
    here is something to think about

    The courage, tenacity, ingenuity and organizational skills of the Jewish population under those conditions are quite remarkable.

    On a negative note, the Germans named every man who was even wounded in the operation - as though to demonstrate their theory that the Germans were human and the Jews less than human

    Adrian
     
  5. webbhead

    webbhead Member

    The Warsaw Ghetto might have been considered "no more" in 1942, but it survived well into 1944 when determined resisters launched the famous Ghetto Uprising. After the failed uprising and death of most members of the ZOB (Jewish Resistance), the ghetto was razed by the Germans, along with much of downtown Warsaw.

    A must-read for anyone interested in this history is Norman Davies's book Rising '44--an encyclopedic account of the ghetto and the rising.

    I agree The Pianist is an excellent film. Polanski was himself a ghetto survivor and he was able to draw on his memory during the making of the film. Wladislaw Spilman's memoir The Pianist (on which the film is based) is also worth picking up.

    The reason Treblinka began operations in 1942 the same time as the ghetto "evacuations" started is that most of the ghetto inmates were sent there, although others ended up in Auschwitz, Belzec, and other locations.

    For visitors today, there is a hard-to-find but still standing piece of the ghetto wall in a courtyard off a residential street near the Warsaw train station.
     
  6. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by webbhead@Jul 24 2005, 10:26 PM
    The Warsaw Ghetto might have been considered "no more" in 1942, but it survived well into 1944 when determined resisters launched the famous Ghetto Uprising. After the failed uprising and death of most members of the ZOB (Jewish Resistance), the ghetto was razed by the Germans, along with much of downtown Warsaw.

    A must-read for anyone interested in this history is Norman Davies's book Rising '44--an encyclopedic account of the ghetto and the rising.

    I agree The Pianist is an excellent film. Polanski was himself a ghetto survivor and he was able to draw on his memory during the making of the film. Wladislaw Spilman's memoir The Pianist (on which the film is based) is also worth picking up.

    The reason Treblinka began operations in 1942 the same time as the ghetto "evacuations" started is that most of the ghetto inmates were sent there, although others ended up in Auschwitz, Belzec, and other locations.

    For visitors today, there is a hard-to-find but still standing piece of the ghetto wall in a courtyard off a residential street near the Warsaw train station.
    [post=36850]Quoted post[/post]

    Okay, let's get this straight.... o_O

    Warsaw saw four battles.

    September 1939: The Polish defense of Warsaw. The Germans bombed the city and conquered it from its rightful owners, the Polish government. The Germans conquer the city and damage it heavily.

    April 1943: The Warsaw Ghetto uprising. A small band of determined Jews fights a doomed revolt against the SS effort to ship out the walled quarter's remaining Jews to concentration camps. The SS destroys the ghetto and leaves a pocket of walled ruins in the middle of the city.

    August 1944: the Warsaw Rising. The Polish Underground rises against the German occupiers to re-take the capital as the Soviet advance brings it near. The rising fails when the Soviets don't advance into Warsaw, and the Germans bring in heavy troops (a panzer division) and a lot of thugs (the Kaminski and Dirlewanger brigades) to crush the rising. After doing so, the Germans destroy most of what's left of the city, as it's now on the front lines.

    January 1945: The German defense of Warsaw. The Soviets finally attack into the city, and the Germans fight for what's left of it, to no avail. The Soviets march in to a wrecked city and pretty much become the new occupiers.

    It's tough...a lot of fighting in Warsaw, all of it grim, all of it horrific, all of it hard to keep straight. I have trouble myself.
     
  7. webbhead

    webbhead Member

    Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I had the "Ghetto" and "Warsaw" uprising dates mixed up.
     
  8. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by webbhead@Jul 25 2005, 11:28 AM
    Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I had the "Ghetto" and "Warsaw" uprising dates mixed up.
    [post=36879]Quoted post[/post]

    Yes, it's tough to keep straight. That's why I posted that list.
     
  9. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by Kiwiwriter+Jul 26 2005, 11:31 PM-->(Kiwiwriter @ Jul 26 2005, 11:31 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-webbhead@Jul 25 2005, 11:28 AM
    Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I had the "Ghetto" and "Warsaw" uprising dates mixed up.
    [post=36879]Quoted post[/post]

    Yes, it's tough to keep straight. That's why I posted that list.
    [post=36907]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]

    Kiwiwriter,

    We hear about the numbers taken from the Ghettos/Warsaw/Poland to the camps, is there a figure on how many Jews/Poles were actually killed in defence of the Ghetto & Warsaw after the initial invasion of the Germans in 1939?
     
  10. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    In 1939 there was no Ghetto in Warsaw ( I stand corrected on this though) so the casualties would be just Army and Civilians as opposed to figures for Jews.

    I may have figures for the uprising in 1944 and shall investigate further on this.
     
  11. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by Gotthard Heinrici@Jul 27 2005, 01:56 AM
    In 1939 there was no Ghetto in Warsaw ( I stand corrected on this though) so the casualties would be just Army and Civilians as opposed to figures for Jews.

    I may have figures for the uprising in 1944 and shall investigate further on this.
    [post=36923]Quoted post[/post]


    Hi Gotthard,

    I did reference after the German invasion, so the question was intended as deaths from resistance up to/and including the Ghetto deaths and after, until wars end.

    Sorry for the confusion..
     
  12. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by spidge+Jul 26 2005, 11:39 AM-->(spidge @ Jul 26 2005, 11:39 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Jul 26 2005, 11:31 PM
    <!--QuoteBegin-webbhead@Jul 25 2005, 11:28 AM
    Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I had the "Ghetto" and "Warsaw" uprising dates mixed up.
    [post=36879]Quoted post[/post]

    Yes, it's tough to keep straight. That's why I posted that list.
    [post=36907]Quoted post[/post]


    Kiwiwriter,

    We hear about the numbers taken from the Ghettos/Warsaw/Poland to the camps, is there a figure on how many Jews/Poles were actually killed in defence of the Ghetto & Warsaw after the initial invasion of the Germans in 1939?
    [post=36918]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]

    Don't know offhand, but Martin Gilbert says that 7,000 Jews were killed suppressing the ghetto rising and 7,000 deported to Treblinka. 10,000 Jews found refuge outside of the ghetto walls, but a third of those were hunted down or betrayed.
     

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