1st Welsh Regiment 21.4.45

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by 1945Welch, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Hello, a member of my family died on the 21st April 1945 serving for the 1st Welch Regiment in Italy, i am trying to find out what happened that day and what action the regiment was involved in. Any info you may have would be greaty appreciated. Details are attached of Lance Corporal Daniel James. Thanks :poppy:

    Casualty
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2019
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From 9th March 1945 they were in 1st Guards Brigade , 6th Armoured Division.
    The two other Battalions were 3rd Bn Grenadier Guards, 3rd Bn Welsh Guards.

    Back in a mo.

    Just looked up in Gren Gds History,
    21 st April 1945
    Already the 1st Battalion of the Welsh Regiment had reached the southern bank of the canal, and the 17th/21st Lancers, by brillaint use of an earthern causeway , had struck beyond it to capture the village of Poggio Renatico, six miles in the rear of the German frontline......evidence of the enemy's declining morale came with the desertion to the Welch Regiment of a complete German platoon...


    The canal refered to is the Cembalina Canal or Fosso Cembalina roughly half way between Argenta and Ferrara.
     
  3. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Thank you very much for this info and quick reply thats a great piece of information. Thanks
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  5. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Have a read of this for the bigger picture.

    Battle of the Argenta Gap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Just checked Ken Ford's Mailed Fist, no mention of 1st Welch until 24th April,


    Thanks Owen, i'm looking into Argenta Gap, found the odd small reference to the Welch. The 6th (armoured) Division you mentioned they belonged to is spot on. I was trying to work out what "Divisional Flash" was on his grave cross we have a photo of (taken in 1945 we believe?) and looked up the 6th (Armoured) division and there it was. Thanks again.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Would it be possible to post a photo of his grave, please?
    I'm always interested in seeing photos of original graves.
     
  7. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Would it be possible to post a photo of his grave, please?
    I'm always interested in seeing photos of original graves.


    Yes no problem, i'll post it here as soon as i work out how to do it..not very tecnically minded i'm afraid
     
  8. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    [​IMG]
     
    Owen likes this.
  9. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

  10. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi 1945Welch


    A little more background to the Argenta Gap story that I remember posting on another forum.

    The date, as near as I can get it, was the 18th of April 1945, just a few weeks before the end of hostilities in Europe.

    My unit was the 4th Queen's Own Hussars, http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/03/a2310003.shtml
    which, at that moment in time, was part of the "Kangaroo Army" of the 2nd Armoured Brigade. For the past few weeks we had been moving relatively slowly through a landscape that consisted of hills and rivers. Suddenly we came to the Argenta Gap and immediately it was 'pierced' we were able to see the plains and nothing seemed to stand in the way of our advance.

    The order must have been given 'Brigade, in open order, Advance!' because all the vehicles in the column (which included my own “Honey” tank) literally fanned out into one straight long line and it was the most wonderful sight that I had ever seen in my (then) short life.

    With coloured Squadron pennants flying from our aerial masts and with some of the tank crews even firing pistol shots into the air (a la the old cowboy films) we raced forward at high speed, relatively un-obstructed by an enemy who by that time must have realised that the Italian campaign was almost over for them.

    It is sixty two years since I experienced this event and yet it still raises the hair on the back of my neck!

    ps
    As Wikipedia puts it:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Argenta_Gap
    "By the 18th the battle for the Argenta Gap was over, and much of the retreating German force had been destroyed before it could retreat across the Po River".

    Good luck with your research

    Ron
     
  11. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Many thanks Ron for that information, I spoke to a reletive of mine on the weekend who said he had heard as a child Dan had been killed at a place called Po, which would tie into the PO River reference..
    Getting closer ...thanks
     
  12. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    [​IMG]

    And this is Dan James, Wife Daisy and Son Neville
     
  13. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Didn't want to say anything at the time as I found it odd that the Mailed Fist was on his headstone - I now see that this was the preliminary burial site with the mailed fist as all headstones in cemeteries show the units insignias with some exceptions for RAC - RA etc - all our headstones show the RAC insignia - there are far too many cemeteries in Italy - and elsewhere.
     
  14. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Thanks Tom, i have no idea of where and when that photo was taken unfortunately but like you say i can see the head stone at Faenza War Cemetery has just the welch insignia
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Notice his uniform and army number show he's a Gunner.
    1771319
    Royal Artillery (Field, Coastal & Anti-Aircraft) 721001 - 1842000 and 11000001 - 11500000


    I imagine, like Ron was, he was in a LAA unit that was broken up later in the war and he ended up in the infantry.
     
  16. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Thanks Owen, I'm a bit of a novice with military resaerch and not sure what you mean by a "LAA unit?" sorry. The more i am looking into military history the more fascinating it is becoming.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    LAA = Light Anti-Aircraft .
    Equipped with 40mm Bofors guns.
    Once the Allies gained air superiority in the Med, there were lots of anti-aircraft gunners with nothing to shoot at.
    The pool of infantry reinforcements was running low so lots of the LAA gunners were posted off to the infantry.
    Ron was lucky, he knew how to work a radio so was sent to an armoured unit.
    Your relative ended up in the Poor Bloody Infantry.
     
  18. 1945Welch

    1945Welch Junior Member

    Yes It sounds like he had a tough time in the 1st Welch, i've found out he was stationed in Palastine at the outbreak of the war, served in the Western Desert and moved to Crete where the Battalion was almost wiped out by elite German Paratroopers and evacuated to North Africa where they again suffered terrible casualties before being brought up to strength, then onto the invasion of Italy. I know now that on April 20th they were at Traghetto and looking into that.

    Thank you all for your help on this.
     
  19. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    1945 Welch ...
    ..
    It is sometimes difficult to trace a particular unit at a particular time and so we end up with a jig saw – even when we have the service records of the individual we are tracing.
    However there are always threads and on as such is you mention of him being in Palestine Crete – the Desert et al.
    Another clue is that the photo shows him as being a RA gunner and in the somewhat preponderance of RA units in Crete – some of which fought as Infantry – alongside the 1st batt Welch regiment at Suda Bay – Cannae sector
    who were of the 14th Infantry Brigade and then transferred to Force Reserve.
    At that time we find that the 14th Inf bde was made up of 2nd Batt Yorks and Lancs –2nd Batt. Leicesters – 1st batt Argll and Sutherland Highlanders which served at various time afterwards in 6th – 8th and 70th Divisions all over the mid east and 70th Div under Maj.Gen Scobie took over from the 6th Australians at Tobruk and broke out at which time many of the Argyll’s went into the bag..

    So the puzzle continues……..with the 13th - 15th and 17 th brigades turning up for the invasion of Sicily but no 14th Bde....
    Cheers
     
  20. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    1945Welch

    I thought you might like to see the attached portions of a National Geographic map of Italy that has stood me in good thread for many a year.
    As you can see I've stuck little markers all over the place showing the date I was actually at the places defined. What you are looking for is Argenta.
    If you can get hold of a copy of Eric Linklater's "The Campaign in Italy" there is quite a bit about that particular battle.

    As Tom so rightly put it, military research is like solving one bloody great jigsaw and sometimes it's just one small piece that drops into place and opens up a whole new aspect.

    Enjoy !

    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

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